Blue Ridge Fly Fishermans Forum

General: Fly Fishing BS => The bar is open.... => Topic started by: on January 01, 1970, 00:00:00 AM

Poll
Question: Should Confederate Memorials stay or go?
Option 1: Keep them. votes: 12
Option 2: Good riddance votes: 7
Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2015, 11:05:51 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/07/e49c68f17fe8fe3b0236d3d223371e9d.jpg)

In Winston Salem at the old courthouse
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2015, 11:07:44 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/07/5211870e7c842b0ae86857224ad91e94.jpg) Great War (WWI) memorial at the old Forsyth County Courthouse
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2015, 11:33:25 AM
(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2011/3/032411-2.jpg)
Shot this one in Morganton back in 2011 honoring the 1100 dead from that county
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 07, 2015, 12:37:43 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on July 07, 2015, 12:12:03 PM
The call to have their upkeep costs eliminated and in some cases the call to remove them has begun.

If we think this will be restricted to civil war monuments, you are likely wrong. There are plenty of black grievances over how they were treated in WW1, 2, Korea and Vietnam.

Pandora's box is open.

Perhaps we can bulldoz the Alamo next.

Once we have gone through all the offending statutes, physical memorials, buildings, locations (Ft Bragg, Ft Lee, etc) we can start on street names. Rename all streets with letters or numbers so as to not risk offending anyone. 

Let's run it to it's logical conclusion and eliminate all the Martin Luther King memorials as well
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 07, 2015, 12:49:31 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on July 07, 2015, 12:12:03 PM
The call to have their upkeep costs eliminated and in some cases the call to remove them has begun.

If we think this will be restricted to civil war monuments, you are likely wrong. There are plenty of black grievances over how they were treated in WW1, 2, Korea and Vietnam.

Pandora's box is open.

Perhaps we can bulldoz the Alamo next.

Not everything unleashed from Pandora's Box is evil.  Hope is at the bottom and the last thing to emerge, the last thing remaining to clean up the hells.   

Let all of us get our undies in a wad and speculate what could transpire. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Transylwader on July 07, 2015, 13:44:34 PM
Quote from: Al on July 07, 2015, 12:37:43 PM
  Let's run it to it's logical conclusion and eliminate all the Martin Luther King memorials as well
:embarassed:
Al, my man...how dare, um, never mind. :laugh:
In 2006, Derek Alderman, a cultural geographer at East Carolina University, reported that more than 730 American cities had named a street after King. 70% of these streets were in seven Southern states: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, and Texas
Who the fuck is paying for this? NWA?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 07, 2015, 13:52:33 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on July 07, 2015, 13:22:39 PM
For a guy who is pretty liberal in his worldview, I don't understand your concept of free speech.

You don't really know me.

I believe old François-Marie Arouet might have known you in an earlier life.

"The secret of being boring is to say everything."  Voltaire
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on July 07, 2015, 14:01:44 PM
I just find it odd when you have a world filled with awful humanitarian issues and we have the U.S. social media and news media blowing up over a stupid flag and homosexuals being able to marry now.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3152034/Tied-bed-injected-morphine-stay-silent-beaten-badly-couldn-t-walk-two-months-Two-teenage-Yazidi-sex-slaves-relive-unspeakable-cruelty-suffered-hands-ISIS-fighters.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3152034/Tied-bed-injected-morphine-stay-silent-beaten-badly-couldn-t-walk-two-months-Two-teenage-Yazidi-sex-slaves-relive-unspeakable-cruelty-suffered-hands-ISIS-fighters.html)

I think Americans really take their freedoms for granted.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 07, 2015, 14:37:48 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on July 07, 2015, 13:59:51 PM
you're right, I don't know you. I do notice your propensity to switch to silliness when a reasonable reply alludes you.

Being a clown doesn't win an argument.

Stick to flatlander.

First, you presumed I thought your reply was reasonable.  Second, you assumed your reply alludes (I think you meant eludes) me. And third, I did not know we were arguing.
 
You were correct that I was being a silly clown, because this entire issue makes me laugh.  But hey, I'm a weirdo.

Honestly, I don't care if they remove flags, statues, monuments, pictures, street signs, etc. or leave them intact as they rest.  I don't believe I was ever moved by such at any public facility.  Now, at places like Civil War battlefields, museums, the VVM Wall, and National D-Day Memorial, I was touched.
Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2015, 16:01:01 PM
Most of the memorials in the south were erected with funds from the Daughters of the Confederacy. Don't know who pays to maintain them. There was that big stink in Reidsville a few years back when some guy drove into a statue and it had to be moved to private land.  The were put in place to remember the fathers who were lost in the war not to honor the confederacy. They are all Americans, remove the flags and keep the markers.

Besides y'all have missed the point, I want you guys (Yankee talk) to post up pics of your local monuments, civil, or any other war!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: AL trout bum on July 07, 2015, 16:25:55 PM
Quote from: Transylwader on July 07, 2015, 13:44:34 PM
Quote from: Al on July 07, 2015, 12:37:43 PM
  Let's run it to it's logical conclusion and eliminate all the Martin Luther King memorials as well
:embarassed:
Al, my man...how dare, um, never mind. :laugh:
In 2006, Derek Alderman, a cultural geographer at East Carolina University, reported that more than 730 American cities had named a street after King. 70% of these streets were in seven Southern states: Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Louisiana, Mississippi, North Carolina, and Texas
Who the fuck is paying for this? NWA?

And you don't want to go down any of them unarmed. Kind of funny, like Chris Rock said: "What did Martin Luther King Jr. stand for? Non-violence! And I don't care where you are in America, if you're on Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, there's some violence going down! You can't call somebody and say, 'I'm lost on MLK!' Run!"

Classic, total classic
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2015, 17:10:53 PM
Fort Fisher to continue selling Confederate merchandise: http://www.wxii12.com/news/Fort-Fisher-to-continue-selling-Confederate-merchandise/34040520
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 07, 2015, 17:20:19 PM
A Virginia boy --- Booker Taliaferro Washington --- war against ignorance
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2015, 19:47:10 PM

Quote from: Ralyd on July 07, 2015, 18:53:42 PM
(http://s17.postimg.org/r8r8dlej3/Rainbowwarrior.jpg)

Rolling memorial to the fabulous dead, I-85 South, Greenville Co., SC.

I am confused by this!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 07, 2015, 19:47:52 PM
TF -  "I bet there's a guy on here that met/knew the last two"

I knew of Bull Simons (He was a legend in SF even before the raid) but never met him. The Son Tay Raid took place while I was between tours and attending school. I didn't know Dick Meadows until after the raid - as I said in a recent post, he and I were operations officers (S-3) during the last days of active US involvement in Vietnam. I also knew 4 of the Son Tay raiders. Served with one before the raid and 3 after the raid.

Troutbum Al - "And you don't want to go down any of them unarmed. Kind of funny, like Chris Rock said: "What did Martin Luther King Jr. stand for? Non-violence! And I don't care where you are in America, if you're on Martin Luther King Jr. Blvd, there's some violence going down! You can't call somebody and say, 'I'm lost on MLK!' Run!"

Sad commentary but true.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on July 07, 2015, 19:51:10 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2015, 19:47:10 PM

Quote from: Ralyd on July 07, 2015, 18:53:42 PM
(http://s17.postimg.org/r8r8dlej3/Rainbowwarrior.jpg)

Rolling memorial to the fabulous dead, I-85 South, Greenville Co., SC.

I am confused by this!

Gay heritage, not hate.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on July 07, 2015, 20:40:55 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2015, 19:47:10 PM

Quote from: Ralyd on July 07, 2015, 18:53:42 PM
(http://s17.postimg.org/r8r8dlej3/Rainbowwarrior.jpg)

Rolling memorial to the fabulous dead, I-85 South, Greenville Co., SC.

I am confused by this!

Transgender children of the confederacy?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: themidge on July 07, 2015, 20:45:27 PM
Me drunk on Lee-Jackson Day in the wee hours of the morning in Richmond, Monument Blvd. I was lucky to live only a few blocks from these beauts.
[attach=1]
[attach=2]
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2015, 10:45:02 AM
Quote from: themidge on July 07, 2015, 20:45:27 PM
Me drunk on Lee-Jackson Day in the wee hours of the morning in Richmond, Monument Blvd. I was lucky to live only a few blocks from these beauts.

I lived at the corner of Monument and Boulevard in a boarding house off-and-on for a couple of years and I never noticed the monuments.  Nor did I pay any attention to those in Bath County while growing up there.  But this one at Gettysburg seemed special; in fact the entire battlefield seemed extraordinary.  Note: not my photos.   
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2015, 11:22:26 AM
How in the world did you not notice the Lee and Jackson monuments? They are huge!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2015, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2015, 11:22:26 AM
How in the world did you not notice the Lee and Jackson monuments? They are huge!

Easy, you put a young hayseed male of drinking age (18 at the time) in the hedonistic fan-region of Richmond and expect him to notice some damned statue?

My first trip to the local laundromat set the tone for my stay in Richmond.  This young gal came in wearing short cutoffs and some sort of midriff-revealing top.  The first thing I noticed was her long beautiful legs AND the distance between those legs at their point of attachment.  I remembered what that Hokie professor had told us about how to measure the 'lay potential' of a gal; you look for the gap distance (please note, this was the 70s).    She caught my ogling, and we conversed.  After introductory pleasantries she flat out asked why I had been scrutinizing her, and I flat out told her about what I had learned in class at VT, after all it was biology.  She was touched, impressed, and obviously flattered.  That was the beginning of the Richmond chapter of my life, and likely the primary reason I did not see any monuments or statues. 

The other reason probably has to do with my wiring.  I cannot multitask.   Driving or walking a street means driving or walking a street.  Monuments, memorials, statues, etc. in a historical setting when I am focused makes sense to me.  I never considered that part of Richmond as historical; I was most likely wrong, BUT I shall not return to find out!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 08, 2015, 15:15:11 PM
Well here ya go - get rid of the "Stars & Bars" and burn all the Stars & Stripes as an expression of freedom of speech - we have another sacred flag to replace them with

http://www.ketv.com/news/gay-flag-burning-suspect-released-on-own-recognizance/31607078 (http://www.ketv.com/news/gay-flag-burning-suspect-released-on-own-recognizance/31607078)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2015, 19:05:20 PM
Touted as heroic by liberal media, this vandal rips a flag off the back off a truck in a traffic jam!

http://youtu.be/fghq85jfTlA
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on July 08, 2015, 20:37:45 PM
By the trucks jet engine?
Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on July 08, 2015, 21:00:47 PM
Nope
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dee-Vo on July 08, 2015, 21:06:42 PM
Why didn't he just spray paint black lives matter on it?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2015, 21:28:21 PM
 Why didn't the truck driver get out and pulverize him with s tire checker?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dee-Vo on July 08, 2015, 21:36:21 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2015, 21:28:21 PM
Why didn't the truck driver get out and pulverize him with s tire checker?

That would be racist.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dee-Vo on July 08, 2015, 22:10:53 PM
I hate "maters".
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2015, 22:12:08 PM
Not a smart move by the guy. What if the object removed had been Japan's Rising Sun flag, Germany's Imperial War flag, Siegel rune, or the Swastika?  Would our castigation be the same?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 09, 2015, 06:32:32 AM
House votes to remove Confederate flag from Federal civil war cemeteries!

http://mobile.nytimes.com/aponline/2015/07/08/us/politics/ap-us-congress-confederate-flag.html?referrer=


Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: themidge on July 09, 2015, 08:42:34 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on July 08, 2015, 11:51:48 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2015, 11:22:26 AM
How in the world did you not notice the Lee and Jackson monuments? They are huge!

Easy, you put a young hayseed male of drinking age (18 at the time) in the hedonistic fan-region of Richmond and expect him to notice some damned statue?

My first trip to the local laundromat set the tone for my stay in Richmond.  This young gal came in wearing short cutoffs and some sort of midriff-revealing top.  The first thing I noticed was her long beautiful legs AND the distance between those legs at their point of attachment.  I remembered what that Hokie professor had told us about how to measure the 'lay potential' of a gal; you look for the gap distance (please note, this was the 70s).    She caught my ogling, and we conversed.  After introductory pleasantries she flat out asked why I had been scrutinizing her, and I flat out told her about what I had learned in class at VT, after all it was biology.  She was touched, impressed, and obviously flattered.  That was the beginning of the Richmond chapter of my life, and likely the primary reason I did not see any monuments or statues. 

The other reason probably has to do with my wiring.  I cannot multitask.   Driving or walking a street means driving or walking a street.  Monuments, memorials, statues, etc. in a historical setting when I am focused makes sense to me.  I never considered that part of Richmond as historical; I was most likely wrong, BUT I shall not return to find out!

As a fellow Hokie, I sympathize with you. I lived in the fan for 3 months before heading up north to where I am today. It was a fun place to be, but the cheap beer and gorgeous women didn't bode well with having a job and responsibilities.

The gap is in fact fun to analyze.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on July 10, 2015, 05:58:38 AM
What the heck MTV

http://youtu.be/DRJnkBqwzOQ (http://youtu.be/DRJnkBqwzOQ)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on July 10, 2015, 15:29:20 PM


I was a rabid CW buff for many years. I slid through Richmond this week and popped a few pics.
On the E/SE side of town you can see all of the Seven Days battlefields and Cold Harbor battlefield.
Gaines Mill and Cold Harbor somewhat geographically overlap each other, just shy of two years apart.
All told they accounted for 54,000 casualties. On the final afternoon of Cold Harbor, over 8,200 men were lost in one
half hour. Cold Harbor started less than a month after the battles of The Wilderness and Spotsylvania, both killing machines.
Can you even imagine?

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/EkmXdOM63MQPi6gXLwC-L8tkr_Kuv4KWDZaVFIUgNnJl=w355-h630-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/aylQ1NrbtDymq8ke5B8Fx659vGpPeMNr7MCevoyQ-2C1=w1120-h630-no)

(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/CvGN3EBCJKyQEBfbiJnNHu8hlBlAyBRuGPB5-jYqUIiP=w425-h630-no)

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 10, 2015, 19:40:18 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on July 10, 2015, 16:55:31 PM

Doug that's some cool stuff. I was not a big civil war buff. The army made me one. I toured those and a lot of other battlefields via what we call a staff ride.

Back in my day we called them TEWT's Tactical Exercise Without Troops (Pronounced Tweet) - I went on a lot of them.

I'm a big fan of the Civil War, especially "Uncle Billie" aka General William Tecumseh Sherman. As posted on another thread one of my big scores in the book category was at a thrift shop where I paid $90 for a book titled "The Memoirs of William Tecumseh Sherman - written by himself"  - It was actually written in two volumes. Over 1000 pages of first hand history.

I see you can download it on Kindle now for less then a buck and Amazon sells it for about $20 for each volume.  That's OK the original was published in 1891 and mine was printed as a combination of Volume 1 & 2 and reissued by the family six months after his death in that same year. Small print and tissue thin paper but my book is in very good condition and I read every word of it.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on July 11, 2015, 21:09:13 PM
Al,
I'm actually going to pick a fight with you.  Had the South had the same resources as the North, Lee would have won.  Grant and Sheridan were good, but they were no match for the Army of Northern Virginia.  Just finished Bruce Catton's "A Stillness At Appomattox".  Can't wait to read his other two.

What next?  Do we dig up the Confederate dead in Arlington?

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 12, 2015, 05:44:00 AM
No problem Flat - You are right, the South had the will to fight and the North had the industrial base. I have all of Bruce Canton's books and they are classics. In fact they got me interested in the Civil War back when I was going for my BA at University of Tampa. Back then we had to do "book reports" and I remember writing about how inept, timid and prone to missed opportunities the Northern Generals were.

It would not surprise me to see the removal of some key confederate remains and the renaming of some of our prominent landmarks - once these moments smell blood (someone else's - never their own) they go into a feeding frenzy and it takes awhile before they back down.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on July 12, 2015, 06:16:09 AM
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/11/memphis-city-council-votes-to-dig-up-grave-of-confederate-general-sell-his-statue/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/11/memphis-city-council-votes-to-dig-up-grave-of-confederate-general-sell-his-statue/)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: NCsporksman on July 12, 2015, 08:13:20 AM
Quote from: Flatlander on July 11, 2015, 21:09:13 PM
Al,
I'm actually going to pick a fight with you.  Had the South had the same resources as the North, Lee would have won.  Grant and Sheridan were good, but they were no match for the Army of Northern Virginia.  Just finished Bruce Catton's "A Stillness At Appomattox".  Can't wait to read his other two.

What next?  Do we dig up the Confederate dead in Arlington?
You are in for a treat.... couldn't put em Down
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 12, 2015, 17:46:20 PM
DALLAS, Texas -- The word "shame" was spray painted in large white, all-capital letters across the base of a Robert E. Lee statue in Lee Park in the Oak Lawn area.

The vandalism was spotted early in the morning, hours before the Confederate flag was taken down Friday at the South Carolina Capitol.

"This criminal act creates alarm not dialogue, and the entire community is a victim because this park is a peaceful urban oasis," said Rick Ericson, a spokesman for the Lee Park & Arlington Hall Conservancy, in a statement released later in the morning. "We have begun the repairs and are installing additional security measures immediately."


http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/10/shame-robert-e-lee-statue-dallas/29972311/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/10/shame-robert-e-lee-statue-dallas/29972311/)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Native Fisher on July 13, 2015, 08:59:04 AM
Quote from: Dougfish on July 12, 2015, 06:16:09 AM
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/11/memphis-city-council-votes-to-dig-up-grave-of-confederate-general-sell-his-statue/ (http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/07/11/memphis-city-council-votes-to-dig-up-grave-of-confederate-general-sell-his-statue/)

Wow, that is totally ridiculous.  NBF was an advanced tactical thinking officer for his time and was lucky too. I am sure his military efforts have been studied a lot over time. His personal thinking on slaves and other things are probably driving this.  You can't change history though and the modern era shouldn't mess with it.  Are they going to go after Thomas Jefferson next for keeping slaves and fathering kids with them?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Native Fisher on July 13, 2015, 11:01:40 AM
Knew that, was reason for the "other things" part of my comment.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 14, 2015, 09:55:53 AM
An interesting opinion article on Robert E. Lee --- was he a traitor to the flag and country he swore to defend?  And did he really believe that slavery was God's will?

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/opinion/david-brooks-the-robert-e-lee-problem.html?WT.mc_id=2015-JULY-OUTBRAIN-SHARED_AUD_DEV-0701-0731&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=AUDDEVREMARK&_r=0 (http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/26/opinion/david-brooks-the-robert-e-lee-problem.html?WT.mc_id=2015-JULY-OUTBRAIN-SHARED_AUD_DEV-0701-0731&WT.mc_ev=click&ad-keywords=AUDDEVREMARK&_r=0)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on July 14, 2015, 10:59:45 AM
TF, I doubt if very many slave owners were brutal to their slaves as portrayed in Hollywood a hundred and fifty years later. Disregarding the whole moral thing, slaves were very, very expensive, valuable property that most folks couldn't afford. They were necessary for the plantation owner for him to get his crops raised, harvested, and off to market so he could make money. A farmer today isn't going to go buy a $90,000 tractor, then beat and fram on it every day, he's going to take care of it and hope it lasts as long as possible.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 14, 2015, 11:43:11 AM
Quote from: Ralyd on July 14, 2015, 11:30:16 AM
......... his near deification in the Lost Cause mythos, all conspire to make his motives wholly obscure. 

Pickett likely would have agreed.   "General Lee, I have no division."
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Grannyknot on July 14, 2015, 12:52:53 PM
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CJ5Hy1VWwAAB1in.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on July 14, 2015, 15:15:40 PM
http://youtu.be/jREUrbGGrgM (http://youtu.be/jREUrbGGrgM)

For Dougie Poo.  He loves The Band.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 15, 2015, 07:24:33 AM
Hitting close to home now..............

http://abc11.com/news/some-want-market-house-removed-from-fayetteville-logo/851811/ (http://abc11.com/news/some-want-market-house-removed-from-fayetteville-logo/851811/)

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/fayetteville-s-market-house-should-be-removed-from-city-logo/article_98c15352-9e85-5f2c-9aed-1ddfef1a4174.html (http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/fayetteville-s-market-house-should-be-removed-from-city-logo/article_98c15352-9e85-5f2c-9aed-1ddfef1a4174.html)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 15, 2015, 08:36:38 AM
Quote from: Al on July 15, 2015, 07:24:33 AM
Hitting close to home now..............

http://abc11.com/news/some-want-market-house-removed-from-fayetteville-logo/851811/ (http://abc11.com/news/some-want-market-house-removed-from-fayetteville-logo/851811/)

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/fayetteville-s-market-house-should-be-removed-from-city-logo/article_98c15352-9e85-5f2c-9aed-1ddfef1a4174.html (http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/fayetteville-s-market-house-should-be-removed-from-city-logo/article_98c15352-9e85-5f2c-9aed-1ddfef1a4174.html)

All this fuss will eventually reach some sort of equilibrium, I believe.  As the author of the R.E. Lee article stated, every generation has a responsibility.

"Every generation has a duty to root out the stubborn weed of prejudice from the culture. We do that, in part, through expressions of admiration and disdain."

I do however have a question, one that I have asked several acquaintances, and one that I wish not to prompt a crap-storm here. 

How can some bond ardent American patriotism with passion for a confederacy, a confederacy that when stripped of all the jingoism was fundamentally the seditious adversary of that very America?

I am sorry; I can't follow the logic. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 15, 2015, 08:54:14 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/15/1fef674c689d5bffccc10cc687f6edb5.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on July 15, 2015, 08:59:35 AM
It is going no where.  Stone Mountain's carving is a staple of Georgia and there is no way it would happen. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on July 15, 2015, 09:08:04 AM
There is too much passion rush to judgement in the world. Not enough logic.

^Cut and paste^ into just about any hot button topic out there.

Do you want a state government to fly a flag that is so derisive over state property? No.
Can it be in a museum? Sure, it's history.
Can an individual fly it? Sure. You can fly your shit stained boxers if you want to.

Tear down and/or deface confederate heroes statues? He who forgets history is doomed to repeat it. This is (possibly?) the only country in the world with hundreds/thousands of monuments to the losers of failed civil wars.

This has always been a country of "what could be?". Some of our fabled inventors, early leaders, newspapermen, industrialists, bankers, authors, merchants, etc. were racists, slave owners, sympathizers, spies, etc. Do we tear down their statues? Do we "whitewash" all history?
This is America. The most admired conundrum in the world. Don't take ingredients out of the soup of our past.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on July 15, 2015, 09:43:33 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on July 15, 2015, 08:36:38 AM


How can some bond ardent American patriotism with passion for a confederacy, a confederacy that when stripped of all the jingoism was fundamentally the seditious adversary of that very America?

I am sorry; I can't follow the logic.

I think it is patriotism for the America that originally was and could have been, not the America that it has now become. The "passion for confederacy" is essentially a longing for a stripped-down American Republic government such as was originally laid out in the Constitution- a system focused mostly on individual liberty and responsibility with the individual states having more say in their own affairs than the Federal government; instead of the snarl of bureaucracy, corruption, over-regulation, and ever-growing self-feeding greed and revenue generation that the Federal government has become in our time. Secession was a product of observation of the trend toward an all-powerful Federal government. The War of Northern Aggression was fought for many of the same reasons that the American Revolution was, and is much the same kind of idea. The war was fought not because of hate for America, but love of the original America that was being altered until it was unrecognizable.

It is entirely possible to deeply love your country, while simultaneously loathing and distrusting your government.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on July 15, 2015, 09:48:59 AM
No matter what your perversion or persuasion, the right to free speech is patriotism defined.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 15, 2015, 10:43:42 AM
Quote from: Ralyd on July 15, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
You don't get to define the world for anyone but yourself.

Isn't that an Oprah Winfrey quote?  No matter, it suggests the truth, but it is still ok to attempt to comprehend the definitions of others. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 15, 2015, 11:33:59 AM
Quote from: Ralyd on July 15, 2015, 11:11:38 AM
One doesn't use words like 'fundamentally' and 'seditious' as the starting point for innocent inquiry. But now that you mention it, when did you stop beating your wife?

I had no replacement for "fundamentally".  I originally had treasonous instead of "seditious", but that sounded a bit harsh.  And who the hell said that my inquiry was innocent?  Innocent inquiry --- what the heck does that mean?  I simply said I didn't want to start a shit storm.  You were under no obligation to answer my question, but I do appreciate your response. 

And to address yours:  I have never beaten my wife.  See how simple a reply can be.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 15, 2015, 13:00:04 PM
Quote from: Ralyd on July 15, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
The war birthed a slogan that gets right to the heart of the issue: "Rich man's war, poor man's fight."

Haven't heard that one in awhile but it speaks a lot of truth about just about every war we get into. With our all volunteer force the rich folks don't even have to worry about their kids or grand kids getting in harms way. Even back in my early day's when we had the draft there were so many ways to get out of it that it was still a "poor man's fight" -  Funny thing is now I run into lots of folks who say, "in hindsight I wish I had gone"

IMHO we need some sort of "Universal Service" for everyone.  Not everyone is cut out or even qualified for the military but there are plenty of other jobs they could do in community service - if they are totally inept let them pick up trash or something similar. Make it 2 years and you get to choose when to go but it must be completed before you reach a certain age, ie 25-30 years old.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on July 15, 2015, 15:07:26 PM
One could draw parallels between all this and the Taliban and ISIS destroying historic religious and artistic works that don't fit into their narrow worldview.  I've found that often, those with the highest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers on their cars are actually the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing to actually coexist with others who don't share their views of how things should work.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: themidge on July 15, 2015, 20:08:44 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on July 15, 2015, 15:10:46 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 15, 2015, 15:07:26 PM
One could draw parallels between all this and the Taliban and ISIS destroying historic religious and artistic works that don't fit into their narrow worldview.  I've found that often, those with the highest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers on their cars are actually the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing to actually coexist with others who don't share their views of how things should work.

I totally agree with that.
X2
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 15, 2015, 20:09:25 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on July 15, 2015, 15:10:46 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 15, 2015, 15:07:26 PM
One could draw parallels between all this and the Taliban and ISIS destroying historic religious and artistic works that don't fit into their narrow worldview.  I've found that often, those with the highest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers on their cars are actually the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing to actually coexist with others who don't share their views of how things should work.

I totally agree with that.

Yep - gave ya both a + on the Kama line for that observation.  --  Oooppps, had to go back and do the same for midge who posted while I was typing.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Shane on July 16, 2015, 14:15:32 PM
Probably should have left all of those Saddam Hussein statues up.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: wildmttwalleye on July 16, 2015, 20:52:29 PM
Quote from: Shane on July 16, 2015, 14:15:32 PM
Probably should have left all of those Saddam Hussein statues up.
laughed
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 17, 2015, 09:18:17 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 15, 2015, 15:07:26 PM
One could draw parallels between all this and the Taliban and ISIS destroying historic religious and artistic works that don't fit into their narrow worldview.  I've found that often, those with the highest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers on their cars are actually the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing to actually coexist with others who don't share their views of how things should work.

Yes, one could draw such a parallel, if one had the vision of a banana slug.

I have uncovered different results in my study of bumper stickers, which makes me question your methodology.   I have found those with NRA, Obama Sucks, The South Will Rise Again, and Trump 2016 stickers to be "the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing".  Admittedly my sample size is rather small; it only included my friends, those that I actually know.  The comparison of those with the greatest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers, again people that I actually know, was interesting.  This small group was naturally high or legitimately stoned on life and didn't really give a rat's ass.  In fact when I disguised myself as someone who I thought would be their adversary I was greeted with treats (strange baked goods, fresh cut flowers, friendly dogs, etc.) and an invitation to commune in their environ.   

I think your statement might be the most vacuous bullshit I have ever seen on this forum, unless you're tricking us to expose our inner most bullshit, and in that case, I salute you.  I have recorded the response of your followers for another study I am conducting.   
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: 5xTippett on July 17, 2015, 09:43:33 AM
I agree with pretty much every thing Yallerhammer said.  As far as I am concerned if Mudwall disagrees with him it's proof he is correct.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 17, 2015, 14:31:13 PM
Quote from: 5xTippett on July 17, 2015, 09:43:33 AM
I agree with pretty much every thing Yallerhammer said.  As far as I am concerned if Mudwall disagrees with him it's proof he is correct.

Ben, I didn't know you wanted to play.  If you would like to be part of my study, complete the following tests and send them to me.  I assure you all names will be kept confidential. 

http://www.allthetests.com/quiz21/quiz/1159917590/The-Redneck-Test (http://www.allthetests.com/quiz21/quiz/1159917590/The-Redneck-Test)

http://www.quibblo.com/quiz/34t0lr/Are-You-A-Racist (http://www.quibblo.com/quiz/34t0lr/Are-You-A-Racist)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dee-Vo on July 17, 2015, 14:58:38 PM
Cool, I'm supposedly a blue blood. The second test would never let me pass the advertisement video.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: 5xTippett on July 17, 2015, 15:06:39 PM
I made blue blood, hayseed.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on July 17, 2015, 15:27:24 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on July 17, 2015, 09:18:17 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 15, 2015, 15:07:26 PM
One could draw parallels between all this and the Taliban and ISIS destroying historic religious and artistic works that don't fit into their narrow worldview.  I've found that often, those with the highest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers on their cars are actually the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing to actually coexist with others who don't share their views of how things should work.

Yes, one could draw such a parallel, if one had the vision of a banana slug.

I have uncovered different results in my study of bumper stickers, which makes me question your methodology.   I have found those with NRA, Obama Sucks, The South Will Rise Again, and Trump 2016 stickers to be "the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing".  Admittedly my sample size is rather small; it only included my friends, those that I actually know.  The comparison of those with the greatest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers, again people that I actually know, was interesting.  This small group was naturally high or legitimately stoned on life and didn't really give a rat's ass.  In fact when I disguised myself as someone who I thought would be their adversary I was greeted with treats (strange baked goods, fresh cut flowers, friendly dogs, etc.) and an invitation to commune in their environ.   

I think your statement might be the most vacuous bullshit I have ever seen on this forum, unless you're tricking us to expose our inner most bullshit, and in that case, I salute you.  I have recorded the response of your followers for another study I am conducting.

Whatevers. Just more stereotyping of rednecks, which the liberal crowd is really good at, even though they say stereotyping is wrong. Just basing my opinions on growing up amongst people with NRA and the South Will Rise Again bumper stickers, and working for twenty years amongst hundreds transplanted co-exist yuppies in Assville. In general, if a redneck disagrees with you, he will disagree with you, but doesn't want to change the way you live. The liberals want to regulate how everybody lives and speaks, you will assimilate. A gay couple r a liberal family in a redneck neighborhood is tolerated much more than I would be skinning a deer hung from a tree in a yuppie-nest subdivision.  ;D

Most "rednecks" don't agree with flying rainbow flags, but they don't waste their time trying to get rid of all of them like the other side is doing with the Confederate flags. I have several ancestors with that flag on their tombstone who died under it, and weren't slaveowners or racists. They were just attempting to hold back an invasion of their homeland by someone with no tolerance. Unless you were born here and have ancestors who died under the stars and bars, you will never understand, and there is no point trying to make you. Your mind is made up and closed.

There are some really narrow-minded people at both ends of the spectrum, but thankfully, most of us are somewhere in the middle of the mess. I'll trout fish with a flaming liberal any day as long as he buys the beer and takes his vehicle.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dee-Vo on July 18, 2015, 20:25:57 PM
According to Mudwall's second test link, I'm "kinda racist".
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: driver on July 19, 2015, 09:21:05 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 17, 2015, 15:27:24 PM
In general, if a redneck disagrees with you, he will disagree with you, but doesn't want to change the way you live. The liberals want to regulate how everybody lives and speaks, you will assimilate.

It's because rednecks are doing it wrong.. I just want rednecks to recycle and stop leaving their beer and worm cans on the side of the stream.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on July 19, 2015, 11:19:37 AM
Class prejudice cuts both ways, and imo, is much more common than racial bias.  Obesity and redneck/ghetto dialects will obviously bring on the ice.

My wife once asked a classroom full of minorities what was their mental archetype of one ideal person.  This group consisted of both blacks and Hispanics.

Answer.  White male in mid thirties that is well educated, wears slacks and oxford shirt, not polo, and wears deck shoes.  No tattoos, piercings, beard, and hair must be clean cut.  Also, the wife must be very attractive with long hair.  So this is the deal folks, many blacks and hispanics give up on many dreams before leaving the gate because they feel unwanted, physically unattractive in the presence of whites.  This cuts really deep, especially for black females.  I was once physically assaulted by a black girl who was trying her best to get my attention.  I ignored her and things didn't go well for me.

The fact is, some Americans entered into professional and sexual relations with blacks during the slave era, and now the repeat button was pushed in the 60s and after and now many employ illegals.  We should have thought about the consequences of entering into relationships with people we care nothing about.  This is as stupid as entering into holy matrimony with a contemptuous relationship.  So now the consequences must be dealt with.  As always, the few screw things up for the many.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 24, 2015, 09:54:11 AM
The dispute will continue – interesting Virginia sample.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/virginia/confederate-battle-flag-polarizes-rockbridge-county-and-lexington/article_98929a38-595f-5b6f-815d-cac293dcd000.html (http://www.roanoke.com/news/virginia/confederate-battle-flag-polarizes-rockbridge-county-and-lexington/article_98929a38-595f-5b6f-815d-cac293dcd000.html)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 24, 2015, 10:23:13 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on July 24, 2015, 09:54:11 AM
The dispute will continue – interesting Virginia sample.

http://www.roanoke.com/news/virginia/confederate-battle-flag-polarizes-rockbridge-county-and-lexington/article_98929a38-595f-5b6f-815d-cac293dcd000.html (http://www.roanoke.com/news/virginia/confederate-battle-flag-polarizes-rockbridge-county-and-lexington/article_98929a38-595f-5b6f-815d-cac293dcd000.html)

he shoulda been more inclusive by adding LGBTQIA to the list.... jis say'in
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: OldDominionAngler on July 24, 2015, 12:00:33 PM
Our town is no stranger to this debate. My high school's mascot, the Raiders, was named after Mosby's raiders.  His uniform on our school logo changed from gray to blue a long time ago.

And a confederate statue stands over the town courtyard.  The NAACP has protested to take it down for years.  I think the protesters have more or less given up trying to have it removed, but last weekend they suggested a pretty agreeable solution IMO: leave the confederate statue but also put up a statue of the slaves who fought in the Civil War.  Now that is a good idea. 

(http://olddominionangler.smugmug.com/Other/Hodge-Podge/i-LQZcq99/1/M/confederate-M.jpg) (http://olddominionangler.smugmug.com/Other/Hodge-Podge/29043370_ChFgW7#!i=4226944487&k=LQZcq99&lb=1&s=A)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: The Dude on July 24, 2015, 12:27:55 PM
Prince Edward county in VA has a pretty tainted history when it comes to race and public school system........
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Native Fisher on July 24, 2015, 13:02:55 PM
My high school mascot was the Rebels until it was changed to the Raiders.  I still have my old Boy Scout troop neckerchief with a rebel flag on it. History is history, good or bad.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on July 24, 2015, 13:25:49 PM
Quote from: The Dude on July 24, 2015, 12:27:55 PM
Prince Edward county in VA has a pretty tainted history when it comes to race and public school system........

Good ol' Farmville.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on July 24, 2015, 14:14:55 PM
You Johnny reb's need to change out of the salmon colored pants, put on some damn socks, stop talking about college football and the war you lost.

:laugh:
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: NCsporksman on July 24, 2015, 14:25:52 PM
Working in GBO today, saw a city worker scrubbing something off of a memorial. This is as far as he got.

Interestingly enough the "Red String Band" is not some radicalized dive bar bluegrass group. Google it.

(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p694/homegrowncrepe/20150724_122717_zpsefonu2pl.jpg) (http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/homegrowncrepe/media/20150724_122717_zpsefonu2pl.jpg.html)

(http://i1346.photobucket.com/albums/p694/homegrowncrepe/20150724_122659_zpswjgtd0hl.jpg) (http://s1346.photobucket.com/user/homegrowncrepe/media/20150724_122659_zpswjgtd0hl.jpg.html)

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 24, 2015, 15:18:05 PM
Confederate monument vandalized in cemetery: http://www.wxii12.com/news/Confederate-monument-vandalized-at-Reidsville-cemetery/34339798


This sort of vandalism isn't going to bring people together, jis say'in
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 24, 2015, 16:16:52 PM
Quote from: AKAaron on July 24, 2015, 14:14:55 PM
You Johnny reb's need to change out of the salmon colored pants, put on some damn socks, stop talking about college football and the war you lost.

Here you go Aaron.  She even looks Italian and she certainly looks like she has "huge tracts of land" fueled by pasta. 

"I sure do admire big women. She's about
that biggest that I ever did see.
Three women in one she is, Alvin Aaron.
A whole passel of women.
Hey, a fellow who'd marry her'd
be a bigamist.
See? Big-muss. Yes, sir, bigamist.
............
Look at that there big woman.
Why don't you have a turn with her, AlvinAaron?
Take you back to your log rolling days.
...............
Well, once around her
is twice around Bear Mountain.
Look at Buck here, AlvinAaron.
He's plumb tuckered out.
................
Dancing around a whole passel of women
that-a-way.
I'd sure like to see you
toad-hop her about, AlvinAaron.
...................
Now, how about that there big woman?"
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 25, 2015, 20:57:48 PM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/07/25/8f8a05b338d0a585b7322b8ab1df7bb0.jpg)

One of three confederate flags seen today in VA
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 02, 2015, 07:12:42 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/02/6b3103124b00cdc8063623531e813e23.jpg)
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/02/9c7d4f1fa371d0abce6a5eb03a082895.jpg)

NC and VA rocking the old stars and bars
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on August 02, 2015, 09:17:54 AM
Passed a produce stand yesterday that had a whole passel of Confederate flags flying. Didn't seem to be hurting their business at all.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: driver on August 02, 2015, 11:16:04 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on August 02, 2015, 09:17:54 AM
Passed a produce stand yesterday that had a whole passel of Confederate flags flying. Didn't seem to be hurting their business at all.

I doubt they would see a decrease, in and area where the population is less than one percent black.....
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on August 03, 2015, 06:55:31 AM
Yes, but the population is about 90% transplanted northerners these days. The locals can't hardly afford to live here any more since the influx of gated yankee nests fulled with $1,000,000 mansions in every holler. We also have a black guy who is an ardent Confederate flag supporter, he goes around waving one in public quite frequently.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 03, 2015, 10:31:20 AM
I saw a few of those flags in Allegheny and Bath counties in VA and in Pocahontas County WV last week.  I even saw a few of these.


Mr. Clifton has balls.  In TX?  I am shocked!

http://www.forwardprogressives.com/message-claim-confederate-flag-represents-heritage/ (http://www.forwardprogressives.com/message-claim-confederate-flag-represents-heritage/)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on August 03, 2015, 13:36:40 PM
TF, yes the Eastern Cherokee joined the Confederate Army about down to the last able-bodied warrior. Most of them were in the 69th NC (Thomas's Legion,) led by Col. Will Thomas, the same guy who helped them get the land back that is now the Qualla Boundary (Eastern Cherokee Rez.)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on August 04, 2015, 17:41:14 PM
http://youtu.be/kpsUrLi6H_U (http://youtu.be/kpsUrLi6H_U)

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 04, 2015, 22:04:22 PM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/04/a850fb2b39bc75d9496f058a5eb91657.jpg)(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/04/51fefc2af88574f5bcee41db7c72f501.jpg)

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on August 06, 2015, 14:50:36 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-womack/south-civil-war-slavery_b_7946604.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592 (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-womack/south-civil-war-slavery_b_7946604.html?ncid=txtlnkusaolp00000592)



Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 07, 2015, 08:58:37 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/07/7ab5c511f6730c58c16a9cb3366ec125.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 07, 2015, 09:15:01 AM
http://youtu.be/NnyeqyCiLdo
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on August 07, 2015, 09:22:24 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 07, 2015, 09:15:01 AM
http://youtu.be/NnyeqyCiLdo (http://youtu.be/NnyeqyCiLdo)

http://www.brfff.com/forum/index.php/topic,13355.msg127602.html#msg127602 (http://www.brfff.com/forum/index.php/topic,13355.msg127602.html#msg127602)

I do like the historic pictures in your version though.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 07, 2015, 09:24:21 AM
You can never has too much of The Band!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 07, 2015, 11:10:14 AM
As seen today on I-40 East

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/07/7ef3ed1033e17964c2e9f358be44e21d.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on August 07, 2015, 11:16:39 AM
Nice juxtaposition with the elves.  'c;
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 07, 2015, 11:59:42 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/07/cbd295d85ef706f5865317efee5d27a4.jpg)

Will NC follow soon?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 09, 2015, 15:28:42 PM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/09/492133635b9bfee3bfcc1e7aa684693d.jpg)

Damn, y'all lost the war, put the flag down 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: wildmttwalleye on August 09, 2015, 16:08:47 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 09, 2015, 15:28:42 PM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/09/492133635b9bfee3bfcc1e7aa684693d.jpg)

Damn, y'all lost the war, put the flag down
Absolutely.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 18, 2015, 07:14:02 AM
NC teen says man pulled gun because of Confederate flag on truck
http://myfox8.com/2015/08/18/336687/

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/18/416ac67569a7534872a3167486676089.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 18, 2015, 13:27:35 PM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/18/14f78d8e644616484c2cab6ce9fa8999.jpg)

They are everywhere!

Confederate flag on crane causes stir in downtown Asheville
http://myfox8.com/2015/08/18/confederate-flag-on-crane-causes-stir-in-downtown-asheville/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 19, 2015, 08:24:50 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/08/19/fd77d04a39d4b3041354eaaf91dabb9b.jpg)

http://tbo.com/news/crime/arrest-made-in-manatee-county-confederate-flag-theft-that-went-viral-20150818/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Grannyknot on September 03, 2015, 12:07:43 PM
Remastered (HD) version of Ken Burns Civil War starts on Monday 9pm, PBS.
http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/civil-war/ (http://www.pbs.org/kenburns/civil-war/)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 03, 2015, 19:06:57 PM
I'd watch that again just to listen to Shelby foote
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 03, 2015, 20:14:47 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 03, 2015, 19:06:57 PM
I'd watch that again just to listen to Shelby foote

..... the king of sham victimhood........... start a war and then cry foul because you're being invaded.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: benben reincarnated on September 04, 2015, 11:18:37 AM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2015/09/03/an-exclusive-look-at-mercy-street-pbss-new-civil-war-medical-drama/ (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/act-four/wp/2015/09/03/an-exclusive-look-at-mercy-street-pbss-new-civil-war-medical-drama/)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 04, 2015, 12:16:41 PM
Foote, who made old Jeff out to be some kind of hero, would not have approved.

http://cw33.com/2015/08/31/statue-moves-ut-says-goodbye-to-jefferson-davis/ (http://cw33.com/2015/08/31/statue-moves-ut-says-goodbye-to-jefferson-davis/)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on September 04, 2015, 12:44:03 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on September 04, 2015, 12:16:41 PM
Foote, who made old Jeff out to be some kind of hero, would not have approved.

http://cw33.com/2015/08/31/statue-moves-ut-says-goodbye-to-jefferson-davis/ (http://cw33.com/2015/08/31/statue-moves-ut-says-goodbye-to-jefferson-davis/)

Why stop with the Confederacy? Let's take down the Washington Monument and the Jefferson Memorial, too.  Dig up those Confederate traitors buried in Arlington, as well.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 04, 2015, 13:12:39 PM
Quote from: Flatlander on September 04, 2015, 12:44:03 PM
Dig up those Confederate traitors buried in Arlington, as well.

I thought they had already moved those rebs to the special confederate section of the cemetery, kind of like they use to bury those servile people of color in their own private faraway boneyard.   
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on September 04, 2015, 13:33:02 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on September 04, 2015, 13:12:39 PM
Quote from: Flatlander on September 04, 2015, 12:44:03 PM
Dig up those Confederate traitors buried in Arlington, as well.

I thought they had already moved those rebs to the special confederate section of the cemetery, kind of like they use to bury those servile people of color in their own private faraway boneyard.

Should Confederate graves even be allowed to exist?  I mean, if seeing a watermelon can make you snap and shoot a bunch of innocent people, imagine what seeing a whole cemetery full of racist traitors might do. :o
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 04, 2015, 14:01:54 PM

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on September 03, 2015, 20:14:47 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 03, 2015, 19:06:57 PM
I'd watch that again just to listen to Shelby foote

..... the king of sham victimhood........... start a war and then cry foul because you're being invaded.

I just like his southern drawl
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on September 04, 2015, 14:04:59 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 04, 2015, 14:01:54 PM

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on September 03, 2015, 20:14:47 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 03, 2015, 19:06:57 PM
I'd watch that again just to listen to Shelby foote

..... the king of sham victimhood........... start a war and then cry foul because you're being invaded.

I just like his southern drawl

He went to Carolina and hung out with Walker Percy.  He's ok in my book.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Grannyknot on September 04, 2015, 14:06:07 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 04, 2015, 14:01:54 PM

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on September 03, 2015, 20:14:47 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 03, 2015, 19:06:57 PM
I'd watch that again just to listen to Shelby foote

..... the king of sham victimhood........... start a war and then cry foul because you're being invaded.

I just like his southern drawl

I like his dialect too woolly, although I think he might have put it on pretty thick for the civil war films.
I saw him speak when I was in college and I don't remember it being that pronounced. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 04, 2015, 14:16:19 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 04, 2015, 14:01:54 PM
I just like his southern drawl

You can learn it.  There will be an oral quiz next week. 


http://youtu.be/Bt04Y5jqUyQ (http://youtu.be/Bt04Y5jqUyQ)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: bmadd on September 04, 2015, 14:33:32 PM
Hell that ain't just Mississippi. My wife went to school down there for a short time, they made fun of us for sounding too country  :-\
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Grannyknot on September 04, 2015, 15:09:49 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on September 04, 2015, 14:16:19 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 04, 2015, 14:01:54 PM
I just like his southern drawl

You can learn it.  There will be an oral quiz next week. 

http://youtu.be/Bt04Y5jqUyQ (http://youtu.be/Bt04Y5jqUyQ)

now that's funny mudwall, but I actually met a guy a few years ago born & raised in Abingdon VA that had the same dialect.
I actually had asked wildmttrout if he knew of any distinct dialects from that area of VA.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 04, 2015, 19:26:08 PM
https://youtu.be/A4jHKTKYrXE
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: themidge on September 05, 2015, 08:46:58 AM
Another great Civil War historian with an interesting dialect - this time of a lisp, but it's still the voice you could listen tell you a story for hours. Dr. Robertson is a true gentleman, taught my father at Virginia Tech and is one of the few remaining experts on the War.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8coNTlxCH6w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8coNTlxCH6w)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on September 05, 2015, 09:54:10 AM
I took an elective course with Dr. Robertson, long ago. Awesome class.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 07, 2015, 12:22:55 PM
Why Ken Burns is restoring 'The Civil War' frame by frame http://wapo.st/1FnmoG1 (http://wapo.st/1FnmoG1)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on September 07, 2015, 13:40:31 PM
Fortunately or unfortunately depending on your point of view Ken Burns now calls my home town of Walpole NH his adopted home town. We were a sleepy farming community along the Connecticut River which got bypassed by the interstate highway system. The family farms went out when commercial farming arrived and our main employer, a chicken hatchery where Rhode Island Reds were developed, got bought out and closed down. Ken and friends came to town and bought up most of the land and opened his studios and various sideline businesses. Several of my relatives now work for him.

There is some talk about an updated documentary of the Vietnam War - one of his producers has my story (which is not much of a story) - who knows  :P
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Trout Maharishi on September 07, 2015, 15:53:56 PM
Al your story and the story of the guys you served with is one hell of a story. One that needs to be told, because very few have any idea of what really took place.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 09, 2015, 15:53:58 PM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/09/ac87dd29fd2482d09a4826b605068a1a.jpg)

Judge orders Confederate memorabilia removed from Pittsylvania County courtroom
http://bit.ly/1EV9152
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: benben reincarnated on September 10, 2015, 07:22:34 AM
Been watching some of The Civil War series on pbs this week and realized I incidentally have most of the dialogue memorized.   I can't count how many times I've watched it in the past.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: benben reincarnated on September 11, 2015, 14:30:24 PM
Little detour on my way back today from a conference in DC. 


(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/11/722d6f8d238f0ce33189edadf3e21663.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/11/1f4e090cb102a211ac49ea5a01a1a607.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/11/7454d77439e4c10969e6123084507c91.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/11/278b5dac1398046e10e174c963d1a40e.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Grannyknot on September 11, 2015, 14:44:33 PM
always knew you were a traitor ben.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on September 11, 2015, 18:16:51 PM
Lexington, VA a great little town.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 15, 2015, 11:47:07 AM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/15/ee6f91c916dc1a35be70638ff2d20515.jpg)

Damn confederates are in the NYT crossword !
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on September 15, 2015, 12:56:55 PM
That's problematic.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 17, 2015, 10:03:40 AM
More than 20 students at a Virginia high school were suspended Thursday after wearing clothes emblazoned with Confederate flags, according to multiple media reports.

Montgomery County Public Schools spokeswoman Brenda Drake told WSLS-TV in Roanoke that 22 or 23 students at Christiansburg High violated the dress code and refused to comply when given the opportunity. All were issued one-day, in-school suspensions, Drake said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/17/virginia-high-schoolers-suspended-wearing-confederate-flags/32548179/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/17/virginia-high-schoolers-suspended-wearing-confederate-flags/32548179/)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: themidge on September 17, 2015, 11:40:30 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 17, 2015, 10:03:40 AM
More than 20 students at a Virginia high school were suspended Thursday after wearing clothes emblazoned with Confederate flags, according to multiple media reports.

Montgomery County Public Schools spokeswoman Brenda Drake told WSLS-TV in Roanoke that 22 or 23 students at Christiansburg High violated the dress code and refused to comply when given the opportunity. All were issued one-day, in-school suspensions, Drake said.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/17/virginia-high-schoolers-suspended-wearing-confederate-flags/32548179/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/09/17/virginia-high-schoolers-suspended-wearing-confederate-flags/32548179/)

Wow. Wooly, We need a confederate flag banana emoticon thing.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: themidge on September 17, 2015, 11:43:04 AM
(http://www.myemoticons.com/images/flags/other/confederate.gif)

Found here: http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/flags/other/confederate-0792/ (http://www.myemoticons.com/emoticons/flags/other/confederate-0792/)


This is good too:


(http://i613.photobucket.com/albums/tt217/saltyrebel/confederate_flag-2.gif)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: benben reincarnated on September 17, 2015, 12:17:13 PM
Quote from: themidge on September 17, 2015, 11:40:30 AM
We need a confederate flag banana emoticon thing.

Here you go:

(http://i.imgur.com/7GDWMa7.png)

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 17, 2015, 12:52:20 PM
I like the FSM flag.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 17, 2015, 14:52:26 PM
They were on the right track when they made that second flag, just cut off that corner and they were ready to surrender!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 17, 2015, 15:24:38 PM
Them boys won't back down

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/17/a792514d62002ddaa1d9d468f8c1eaef.jpg)


High schoolers suspended for protesting Confederate flag ban
http://nyp.st/1LjY1zs


Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 28, 2015, 21:39:14 PM
Here you go, the best stars and bars I've seen all year

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/28/bfe3ae5f7f69db4f4b6aeef4b283734a.jpg)

Greensboro skin wars this past weekend

Artist: Cheryl Ann Lipstreu
Model: Katlin Tucker
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: driver on September 28, 2015, 22:09:58 PM
does dood on the right have a nightstick?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 28, 2015, 22:22:41 PM

Quote from: driver on September 28, 2015, 22:09:58 PM
does dood on the right have a nightstick?

What dude?









Oh, I see him, and it does look like protection from the grubby hands that might attend the show. #readyforabeatdown
Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 28, 2015, 22:30:52 PM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/28/4886ee9c30c605f1f5d61adca4478a2d.jpg)

Just a prop for the theme of the body art
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on September 30, 2015, 16:01:06 PM
Three cannons from the CSS Pee Dee recovered from the river.

http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article36910053.html (http://www.thestate.com/news/local/article36910053.html)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on October 14, 2015, 11:23:36 AM
http://wjhl.com/2015/10/12/greene-co-to-consider-flying-confederate-flag-at-courthouse/

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on October 17, 2015, 15:47:38 PM
https://instagram.com/p/8897b0CUV0/

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on October 17, 2015, 17:20:12 PM

Quote from: troutfanatic on October 17, 2015, 16:09:35 PM
what's up with the typo on Revolutionary? That is fixable...

It's fubared as far as I can tell,   #Dyslexicengraver

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 17, 2015, 18:25:04 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on October 17, 2015, 17:20:12 PM

Quote from: troutfanatic on October 17, 2015, 16:09:35 PM
what's up with the typo on Revolutionary? That is fixable...

It's fubared as far as I can tell,   #Dyslexicengraver

Funny, but more disappointing is the gaffe in the chronology.  What was their reasoning?  Numbers over timeline?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on October 18, 2015, 20:36:34 PM
(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/18/735b3b34ef8ee4bdfecd7b23899a320a.jpg)


(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/18/cea6e4bd8b43ea5f661a0478181786c5.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/18/9bc5d63e04acf1c3a64af9c08a3ac26b.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/18/d3534116c21236997b92a45d633b3118.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/18/160cf64a1f8ff3becaf406f3bdc10c19.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: themidge on November 03, 2015, 09:29:37 AM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/11/02/man-detonates-bomb-miss-walmart/75068846/ (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/11/02/man-detonates-bomb-miss-walmart/75068846/)

"A white male got out, lit the package and threw it in the vestibule," said Aguirre. "There was an employee on break, and the suspect told him, 'You better run.'

"The employee did run and was away from harm when the package went off. It wasn't a large explosion. It didn't cause a lot of damage to the store."

No one was injured in the incident. The remnants of the homemade explosive device have been sent to the crime lab.

A supporter of the Mississippi flag, Leonard railed against anyone who wanted it removed because it contained the Confederate battle flag. He spoke out against Walmart when the retail giant stop selling items that contained the Confederate battle flag.
Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 03, 2015, 13:56:41 PM


Rainy day walk-a-bout in Old Salem Cemetery

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-1.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-2.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-3.jpg)


21st Infantry Regiment, formerly the 11th Volunteers, was a twelve company command organized at Danville, Virginia, in June, 1861. Men of this unit were recruited in Davidson, Surry, Forsyth, Stokes, Rockingham, and Guilford counties. It was assigned to General Trimble's, Hoke's, Godwin's, and W.G. Lewis' Brigade. After taking part in the Battle of First Manassas  and Jackson's Valley operations, the 21st participated in many conflicts of the army from the S even Days' Battles to Bristoe. It was then involved in the engagements at Plymouth , Drewry's Bluff , and Cold Harbor, marched with Early to the Shenandoah Valle y, and saw action around Appomattox . The unit sustained 80 casualties at First Winchester , 13 at Cross Keys  and Port Republic , 45 during the Seven Days' Battles, 51 at Groveton , 18 at Sharpsburg , and 24 at Fredericksburg . It lost 78 at Chancellorsville , twenty-eight percent of the 436 at Gettysburg , and 52 at Plymouth . In April, 1865, it surrendered with 6 officers and 117 men of which 40 were armed.



•OFFICERS:

Colonels Saunders Fulton, B.Y. Graves, James M. Leach, Rufus K. Pepper, William S. Rankin, and William L. Scott; and Majors James F. Beall, Alex. Miller, W.J. Pfohl, and J.M. Richardson.


(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-4.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-1-2.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-2-2.jpg)
Lots of history on this page: One example, ... His son Frederick Warren (Warner) Sheetz was educated at Virginia Military Institute and later joined the Confederate Army. Thus splitting the family north against south!


(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-5.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-6.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-7.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-8.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/oscw-9.jpg)

Lt. M.W. Norfleet was wounded July 3rd at Gettysburg 47th N.C.T. Company C


Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on November 03, 2015, 14:41:27 PM
What is really interesting is I've seen figures as high as 115,000+ white soldiers (from AL, FL,TN, VA, NC......) serving the Union during the Civil War. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on November 03, 2015, 14:51:35 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on November 03, 2015, 14:41:27 PM
What is really interesting is I've seen figures as high as 115,000+ white soldiers (from AL, FL,TN, VA, NC......) serving the Union during the Civil War.

Thanksgiving dinners must have been awkward.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on November 03, 2015, 15:10:52 PM
Quote from: Flatlander on November 03, 2015, 14:51:35 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on November 03, 2015, 14:41:27 PM
What is really interesting is I've seen figures as high as 115,000+ white soldiers (from AL, FL,TN, VA, NC......) serving the Union during the Civil War.

Thanksgiving dinners must have been awkward.

For which party?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on November 03, 2015, 16:15:33 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on November 03, 2015, 15:26:07 PM
Good pics boss. I'm headed north for thanksgiving. There's a cemetery near my MiL's house where Union troops from the Civil War as well as the war with Mexico, 1812 and revolution. I'll have to see if I can get some pics.

There's a small Confederate cemetery on Fort Bragg, I mean small... like six dudes buried in it. I am surprised the current tone of political correctness has not led to their relocation.

Not trying to start anything here but I'm curious if you are you really surprised or feigning surprise. To me it doesn't seem difficult to understand the "current tone" which can be framed as don't put a flag that represents oppression on public property seems pretty straight forward. I think the idea is that just because somebody's granddaddy died as part of a seditious insurrection who's aim was the overthrow of the national rule of law that doesn't give them the right to expect the general public to provide funding for the memorials to the oppressor's or their cause.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Grannyknot on November 03, 2015, 16:41:57 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on November 03, 2015, 14:41:27 PM
What is really interesting is I've seen figures as high as 115,000+ white soldiers (from AL, FL,TN, VA, NC......) serving the Union during the Civil War.

East TN was pro union and voted against the secession referendum. 
Andrew Johnson was the only senator from a seceded state who kept his seat in the U.S. Congress.

Point being, just because the old money, plantation owning, state politicians voted for secession didn't mean the entire state had a sense of attachment with the lower South when it came to defending the institution of slavery. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 03, 2015, 19:31:51 PM
Be sure to check the anonymous KKK hack list :-)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on November 03, 2015, 20:12:12 PM

Quote from: Dylar on November 03, 2015, 18:51:50 PM
I ain't saying I'm for the flag (either one), but I'm against smugness.

I ain't saying a give a fuck.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on November 03, 2015, 20:31:29 PM

Quote from: troutfanatic on November 03, 2015, 20:15:25 PM
Quote from: AKAaron on November 03, 2015, 20:12:12 PM

Quote from: Dylar on November 03, 2015, 18:51:50 PM
I ain't saying I'm for the flag (either one), but I'm against smugness.

I ain't saying a give a fuck.

that is somewhat contradictory to your first comment, but then again I'm not giving a fuck either.

Yes, yes it is.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on November 04, 2015, 06:43:37 AM
Better think twice before doing something rash boys

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3302087/You-better-run-Mississippi-man-allegedly-warned-employee-escape-bombing-Wal-Mart-store-chain-stopped-selling-state-flag.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3302087/You-better-run-Mississippi-man-allegedly-warned-employee-escape-bombing-Wal-Mart-store-chain-stopped-selling-state-flag.html)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Pansyman on November 04, 2015, 20:05:26 PM

Interesting read about one veteran

Taken from the Daily News Joliet Ill. Wed. June 14, 1911




JACOB MILLER, A WAR SCARRED HERO

Braidwood Veteran Carried Bullet in Head For Many Years After War

FELL PIECE BY PIECE

Story of Vicissitudes of the Veteran, Left on the field of Battle as Dead
Reviewed From His own Biography Receives $40 Month Pension


       Braidwood is sending to the state G.A.R. encampment today one of the most remarkable hero survivors of the Civil War. His name is Jacob Miller and since Sept. 19, 1863, he has lived with an open bullet wound in his forehead. For a number of years the bullet remained in his head but piece by piece it fell out till now. It is thought none of it remains in the wound. During the time it was in the head it at times would produce a stupor, which sometimes would last two weeks, it being usually when he caught cold and produced more of a pressure on the brain. At other times delirium would seize him and he would imagine himself again on picket duty and would tramp back and forth on his beat, a stick on his shoulder for a musket, a pitiful object of the sacrifice for freedom. As these pieces of lead gradually loosened and fell out he regained his usual health and is now at the age of 78 years, one of the most, if not the most, remarkable survivor of the Civil war.
       The harrowing experience undergone by Mr. Miller is so vividly felt by him even at this late day that it is seldom he can be persuaded to talk of it.
       But it is my privilege to record from his own hand writing written for his family the story of his miraculous escape from death at that memorable time under his signature.



       Jacob Miller, formerly a private in company K 9th Indiana Vol. Inf. Was wounded in the head near Brock Field at the battle of Chickamagua, Georgia on the morning of Sept. 19, 1863. I was left for dead when my company when my company fell back from that position. When I came to my senses some time after I found I was in the rear of the confederate line. So not to become a prisoner I made up my mind to make an effort to get around their line and back on my own side. I got up with the help of my gun as a staff, then went back some distance, then started parallel with the line of battle. I suppose I was so covered with blood that those that I met, did not notice that I was a Yank, ( at least our Major, my former captain did not recognize me when I met him after passing to our own side).
       At last I got to the end of the confederate line and went to our own side while a brigade of confederates came up to their line behind me. There were none of the Union forces found on that part of the field when I passed along. I struck an old by-road and followed it the best I could, as by this time my head was swelled so bad it shut my eyes and I could see to get along only by raising the lid of my right eye and look ahead then go on till I ran afoul of something, then would look again and so on till I came to the Lafayette Pike near the Kelly house and started towards the field Hospital at the springs. I at length got so badly exhausted I had to lie down by the side of the road. At last some bearers came along and put me on their stretcher and carried me to the hospital and laid me on the ground in a tent. A hospital nurse came and put a wet bandage over my wound and around my head and gave me a canteen of water. I don't know what time of day they examined my wound and decided to put me on the operating table till after dark some time. The surgeons examined my wound and decided it was best not to operate on me and give me more pain as they said I couldn't live very long, so the nurse took me back into the tent. I slept some during the night . The next morning (Sunday), the doctors came around to make a list of the wounded and of their company and regiments and said to send all the wounded to Chattanooga that the ambulances would carry and told me I was wounded too bad to be moved, and if the army fell back those that were left there could afterwards be exchanged.



       As stated before I made up my mind as long as I could drag one foot after another I would not allow myself to be taken prisoner. I got a nurse to fill my canteen with water so I could make an effort in getting near safety as possible. I got out of the tent without being noticed and got behind some wagons that stood near the road till I was safely away (having to open my eye with my finger to take my bearings on the road) I went away from the boom of cannon and the rattle of musketry. I worked my way along the road as best I could. At one time I got off to the side of the road and bumped my head against a low hanging limb. The shock toppled me over, I got up and took my bearings again and went on as long as I could drag a foot then lay down beside the road, to see if I could not rest so I could move. I hadn't lain long till the ambulance train began to pass, the drivers as they passed me asked me if I was still alive, then passing on. At last one of the drivers asked if I was alive and said he would take me in, as one of his men had died back awes, and he had taken him out. Then it was all a blank to me, (Monday the 21st I came to myself and found I was in a long building in Chattanooga Tenn., lying with hundreds of other wounded on the floor almost as thick as hogs in a stock car. Some were talking , some were groaning. I raised myself to a sitting position got my canteen and wet my head. While doing it I heard a couple of soldiers who were from my company. They could not believe it was me as they said I was left for dead on the field at the left of Brock Cabin. They came over to where I was and we visited together till then came an order for all the wounded that could walk to start across the river on a pontoon bridge to a hospital, to be treated ready to be taken to Nashville. I told the boys if they could lead me, I could walk that distance. I started but owing to our army retreating the night before, and was then in and around the city wagon trains. Troops and artillery were crossing the river on the single pontoon bridge. We could not get across until almost sundown. When we arrived across and up on the bank we luckily ran across our company teamster, who we stopped with that night He got us something to eat After we ate some (the first I had tasted before daylight Saturday morning the 19th), we lay down on a pile of blankets, each fixed under the wagon and rested pretty well as the teamsters stayed awake till nearly morning to keep our wounds moist with cool water from a nearby spring.



       Tuesday morning the 22nd we awoke to the crackling of the camp fire that a comrade built to get us a cup of coffee and a bite to eat of hard tack and fat meat. While eating, an orderly rode up and asked if we were wounded. If so we were to go back along the road to get our wounds dressed, so we bid the teamsters good-bye and went to get our wounds attended to. We had to wait till near noon before we were attended to. That was the first time I had my wound washed and dressed by a surgeon. After we were fixed up we drew a few crackers, some sugar coffee, salt and a cake of soap and were ordered to get into an army wagon with four army mules, ( God Bless the army mule, the soldiers friend.) We got in and started to go over Raccoon or Sand Mountain to Bridgeport, Ala. To take the train to Nashville, Tenn. After riding in the wagon awhile I found the jolting hurt my head so badly I could not stand it so had to get out. My comrades got out with me and we went on foot. I was told it was 60 miles that route to Bridgport, at least it took us four days to get there. Wednesday morning when I woke up I found I could open my right eye and see to get around. We arrived at Bridgeport the fourth day out from Chattanooga at noon, just as a train of box cars were ready to pull out. I got in a car and lay down. I had gained my point so far--and how. As the soldiers term it with lots of sand, but the sand had run out with me for the time being.



       The next thing I remember I was stripped and in a bath tub of warm water in a hospital at Nashville. I do not know what date it was; in fact I didn't pay much attention to the dates from the Friday at noon when I got in the box car at Bridgeport to start to Nashville.



       After, some length of time I was transferred to Louisville , Ky. From there to New Albany, Ind.. In all the hospitals I was in I begged the surgeons to operate on my head but they all refused.



       I suffered for nine months then I got a furlough home to Logansport and got Drs. Fitch and Colman to operate on my wound. They took out the musket ball. After the operation a few days, I returned to the hospital at Madison and stayed there till the expiration of my enlistment, Sept. 17, 1864. Seventeen years after I was wounded a buck shot dropped out of my wound and thirty one years after two pieces of lead came out.



       Some ask how it is I can describe so minutely my getting wounded and getting off the battle field after so many years. My answer is I have an everyday reminder of it in my wound and constant pain in the head, never free of it while not asleep. The whole scene is imprinted on my brain as with a steel engraving.



       I haven't written this to complain of any one being in fault for my misfortune and suffering all these years, the government is good to me and gives me $40.00 per month pension.





Submitted by Edgar Miller





Taken from the Daily News Joliet Ill. Wed. June 14, 1911




JACOB MILLER, A WAR SCARRED HERO

Braidwood Veteran Carried Bullet in Head For Many Years After War

FELL PIECE BY PIECE

Story of Vicissitudes of the Veteran, Left on the field of Battle as Dead
Reviewed From His own Biography Receives $40 Month Pension


       Braidwood is sending to the state G.A.R. encampment today one of the most remarkable hero survivors of the Civil War. His name is Jacob Miller and since Sept. 19, 1863, he has lived with an open bullet wound in his forehead. For a number of years the bullet remained in his head but piece by piece it fell out till now. It is thought none of it remains in the wound. During the time it was in the head it at times would produce a stupor, which sometimes would last two weeks, it being usually when he caught cold and produced more of a pressure on the brain. At other times delirium would seize him and he would imagine himself again on picket duty and would tramp back and forth on his beat, a stick on his shoulder for a musket, a pitiful object of the sacrifice for freedom. As these pieces of lead gradually loosened and fell out he regained his usual health and is now at the age of 78 years, one of the most, if not the most, remarkable survivor of the Civil war.
       The harrowing experience undergone by Mr. Miller is so vividly felt by him even at this late day that it is seldom he can be persuaded to talk of it.
       But it is my privilege to record from his own hand writing written for his family the story of his miraculous escape from death at that memorable time under his signature.



       Jacob Miller, formerly a private in company K 9th Indiana Vol. Inf. Was wounded in the head near Brock Field at the battle of Chickamagua, Georgia on the morning of Sept. 19, 1863. I was left for dead when my company when my company fell back from that position. When I came to my senses some time after I found I was in the rear of the confederate line. So not to become a prisoner I made up my mind to make an effort to get around their line and back on my own side. I got up with the help of my gun as a staff, then went back some distance, then started parallel with the line of battle. I suppose I was so covered with blood that those that I met, did not notice that I was a Yank, ( at least our Major, my former captain did not recognize me when I met him after passing to our own side).
       At last I got to the end of the confederate line and went to our own side while a brigade of confederates came up to their line behind me. There were none of the Union forces found on that part of the field when I passed along. I struck an old by-road and followed it the best I could, as by this time my head was swelled so bad it shut my eyes and I could see to get along only by raising the lid of my right eye and look ahead then go on till I ran afoul of something, then would look again and so on till I came to the Lafayette Pike near the Kelly house and started towards the field Hospital at the springs. I at length got so badly exhausted I had to lie down by the side of the road. At last some bearers came along and put me on their stretcher and carried me to the hospital and laid me on the ground in a tent. A hospital nurse came and put a wet bandage over my wound and around my head and gave me a canteen of water. I don't know what time of day they examined my wound and decided to put me on the operating table till after dark some time. The surgeons examined my wound and decided it was best not to operate on me and give me more pain as they said I couldn't live very long, so the nurse took me back into the tent. I slept some during the night . The next morning (Sunday), the doctors came around to make a list of the wounded and of their company and regiments and said to send all the wounded to Chattanooga that the ambulances would carry and told me I was wounded too bad to be moved, and if the army fell back those that were left there could afterwards be exchanged.



       As stated before I made up my mind as long as I could drag one foot after another I would not allow myself to be taken prisoner. I got a nurse to fill my canteen with water so I could make an effort in getting near safety as possible. I got out of the tent without being noticed and got behind some wagons that stood near the road till I was safely away (having to open my eye with my finger to take my bearings on the road) I went away from the boom of cannon and the rattle of musketry. I worked my way along the road as best I could. At one time I got off to the side of the road and bumped my head against a low hanging limb. The shock toppled me over, I got up and took my bearings again and went on as long as I could drag a foot then lay down beside the road, to see if I could not rest so I could move. I hadn't lain long till the ambulance train began to pass, the drivers as they passed me asked me if I was still alive, then passing on. At last one of the drivers asked if I was alive and said he would take me in, as one of his men had died back awes, and he had taken him out. Then it was all a blank to me, (Monday the 21st I came to myself and found I was in a long building in Chattanooga Tenn., lying with hundreds of other wounded on the floor almost as thick as hogs in a stock car. Some were talking , some were groaning. I raised myself to a sitting position got my canteen and wet my head. While doing it I heard a couple of soldiers who were from my company. They could not believe it was me as they said I was left for dead on the field at the left of Brock Cabin. They came over to where I was and we visited together till then came an order for all the wounded that could walk to start across the river on a pontoon bridge to a hospital, to be treated ready to be taken to Nashville. I told the boys if they could lead me, I could walk that distance. I started but owing to our army retreating the night before, and was then in and around the city wagon trains. Troops and artillery were crossing the river on the single pontoon bridge. We could not get across until almost sundown. When we arrived across and up on the bank we luckily ran across our company teamster, who we stopped with that night He got us something to eat After we ate some (the first I had tasted before daylight Saturday morning the 19th), we lay down on a pile of blankets, each fixed under the wagon and rested pretty well as the teamsters stayed awake till nearly morning to keep our wounds moist with cool water from a nearby spring.



       Tuesday morning the 22nd we awoke to the crackling of the camp fire that a comrade built to get us a cup of coffee and a bite to eat of hard tack and fat meat. While eating, an orderly rode up and asked if we were wounded. If so we were to go back along the road to get our wounds dressed, so we bid the teamsters good-bye and went to get our wounds attended to. We had to wait till near noon before we were attended to. That was the first time I had my wound washed and dressed by a surgeon. After we were fixed up we drew a few crackers, some sugar coffee, salt and a cake of soap and were ordered to get into an army wagon with four army mules, ( God Bless the army mule, the soldiers friend.) We got in and started to go over Raccoon or Sand Mountain to Bridgeport, Ala. To take the train to Nashville, Tenn. After riding in the wagon awhile I found the jolting hurt my head so badly I could not stand it so had to get out. My comrades got out with me and we went on foot. I was told it was 60 miles that route to Bridgport, at least it took us four days to get there. Wednesday morning when I woke up I found I could open my right eye and see to get around. We arrived at Bridgeport the fourth day out from Chattanooga at noon, just as a train of box cars were ready to pull out. I got in a car and lay down. I had gained my point so far--and how. As the soldiers term it with lots of sand, but the sand had run out with me for the time being.



       The next thing I remember I was stripped and in a bath tub of warm water in a hospital at Nashville. I do not know what date it was; in fact I didn't pay much attention to the dates from the Friday at noon when I got in the box car at Bridgeport to start to Nashville.



       After, some length of time I was transferred to Louisville , Ky. From there to New Albany, Ind.. In all the hospitals I was in I begged the surgeons to operate on my head but they all refused.



       I suffered for nine months then I got a furlough home to Logansport and got Drs. Fitch and Colman to operate on my wound. They took out the musket ball. After the operation a few days, I returned to the hospital at Madison and stayed there till the expiration of my enlistment, Sept. 17, 1864. Seventeen years after I was wounded a buck shot dropped out of my wound and thirty one years after two pieces of lead came out.



       Some ask how it is I can describe so minutely my getting wounded and getting off the battle field after so many years. My answer is I have an everyday reminder of it in my wound and constant pain in the head, never free of it while not asleep. The whole scene is imprinted on my brain as with a steel engraving.



       I haven't written this to complain of any one being in fault for my misfortune and suffering all these years, the government is good to me and gives me $40.00 per month pension.





Submitted by Edgar Miller





















Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 04, 2015, 21:16:57 PM
You can say that again
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 24, 2015, 16:59:31 PM
Had to travel to Mocksville today..

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-1.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-2.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-3.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-4.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-5.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-6.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-7.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-8.jpg)

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/11/11225dccw-9.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 11:55:12 AM
I give a shit. I have several ancestors, who never owned slaves, by the way, who died under that flag, and I will never be ashamed of it. There was just as much slavery and insurrection under the US flag as there was under the Stars and Bars. The war against our all-powerful, overbearing federal government is still going on, we're just in a cease-fire at the moment. If you think the war was all about slavery, you need to do a bit more research. Slavery was an issue and a symptom of the larger rift, but it wasn't the Big Issue. And the North didn't invade the South to free the slaves any more than we invaded Iraq to free the people from Sadaam, there were still plenty of slaves in the North at the outbreak of the war.

But, if you aren't from here, you will never understand it, and that's ok, too.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: bmadd on November 25, 2015, 13:03:33 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 11:55:12 AM
I give a shit. I have several ancestors, who never owned slaves, by the way, who died under that flag, and I will never be ashamed of it. There was just as much slavery and insurrection under the US flag as there was under the Stars and Bars. The war against our all-powerful, overbearing federal government is still going on, we're just in a cease-fire at the moment. If you think the war was all about slavery, you need to do a bit more research. Slavery was an issue and a symptom of the larger rift, but it wasn't the Big Issue. And the North didn't invade the South to free the slaves any more than we invaded Iraq to free the people from Sadaam, there were still plenty of slaves in the North at the outbreak of the war.

But, if you aren't from here, you will never understand it, and that's ok, too.

http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html#Mississippi (http://www.civilwar.org/education/history/primarysources/declarationofcauses.html#Mississippi)

5 Confederate states went so far as to list Slavery as a primary reason in their Declaration of Causes of Seceding, but that's none of my business.

I'm not dumb enough to say that was the only reason for secesion. I agree that it was about the South standing up for State's rights. I just so happen to also believe it was primarily over slaves.
QuoteOur position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery-- the greatest material interest of the world. - State of Mississippi
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 13:33:24 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on November 25, 2015, 13:29:37 PM
Funny thing about that slavery stuff, by 1804 the north had abolished it already and the British empire ended the slave trade in 1807, but them northern abolitionist banksters, traders and early industrialists had no issues profiting off the fruits of slavery.

Not condoning, just saying.

Why did Maryland and several other northern states still hold slaves at the outbreak of the Civil War, then? Reading some of Lincoln's quotes about his feelings on slavery and black folks in general before he seized on abolishing slavery as a political tool is quite eye-opening.

The vast majority of southern people fighting and dying in the war never owned a slave, and probably had no strong personal opinions about slavery. Slavery was a rich man's game. Most were fighting because a hostile army invaded their homeland; killing, burning, looting, and raping their way across the south.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on November 25, 2015, 13:35:30 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 11:55:12 AM
But, if you aren't from here, you will never understand it, you can't understand it, you have no desire to understand it, and that's ok, too, because little of it is proper or honorable

Fixed
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 13:39:14 PM
Quote from: Dylar on November 25, 2015, 13:37:57 PM
It would probably be most accurate to say that slavery and the election of Lincoln were the proximate impetus for secession and war. That said, I'd argue that the causes of the war ran much deeper.  The fundamental question was whether America would remain as it had been—an isolationist agrarian federal republic where local and sectional particularism acted as a brake on the power of the national government—or whether it would become, as the leading European powers (Britain, France and Prussia) had already become, an industrial capitalist society dominated wholly by the national government, and a player on the world stage.  In that sense slavery functioned more as the excuse for war than its cause.

Yes, that was what I was saying. Agreed 100%.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 13:41:09 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on November 25, 2015, 13:35:30 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 11:55:12 AM
But, if you aren't from here, you will never understand it, you can't understand it, you have no desire to understand it, and that's ok, too, because little of it is proper or honorable

Fixed

In America, yankee liberals are entitled to their opinions, too. The same ones that are supportive of our very similar former rebellion against Great Britain. I have absolutely no desire to understand many things y'all espouse and love, either.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 13:51:34 PM
I wonder how many of the same folks who oppose a Confederate flag over a public memorial for people who died under it would be as opposed to a Union Jack flying over a public memorial to British soldiers killed in the Revolution?

And why is slavery a black issue to begin with? Scads of folks of all races have been held as slaves historically, and to this day for that matter. And what about the rich free blacks who owned slaves themselves? Or the black slaveholders in Africa that sold their own slaves to slave traders for profit? Or the fact that the same folks who hate southerners love the cultures who still practice slavery in modern times, i.e., Islamic and African states? Where was the last legal slavery in the world (long after the American Civil War?) And who was involved in it?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 13:53:01 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on November 25, 2015, 13:47:33 PM
I missed your pre-edit comment taller but I get the gist from the village idiot's "fix".

True, I'm not from here and I am unfuckingapologetic about that, but I'm not the one criticizing your post.

The south gone Marxist breh.

I am Yankee. I damn sure ain't a leftist. I would add that Al is my fellow Yankee and far from lefty loon.

Mudders lives in the commonwealth of VAgina and werks at a university, how would he think otherwise?

Birthplace does not a  yankee make, and my comments were not directed at y'all.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on November 25, 2015, 14:09:57 PM
Well said. I am just opposed to re-writing of history because it offends some folks.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on November 25, 2015, 17:34:53 PM
I've read a lot of personal memoirs of both the Union and Confederate generals. (Currently reading U.S. Grant. Just finished Bradford Forest). From what I gather it was the enlisted men who loved Robert E. Lee - His subordinate generals not so much. They thought he often let his ego get in the way of sound judgement.
Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 25, 2015, 19:46:26 PM
Woolly' civil war trail continues with a stop in Thomasville

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/021ea4184984e2c5c0328a2ccacc814a.jpg)
1st Lieutenant
14th Regiment Co B
"Thomasville Rifles"

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/2d924cc0e7d25b534697b2222e09eb7a.jpg)
No stars and bars flying today on this flagpole

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/2e16488c4d6100a3d4f4d489e7b7a740.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/c85bfbc7ddd0cca9abc789aa13b789a5.jpg)

The casualties of the hospital were buried indiscriminate of rank, state, or allegiance. This was done most likely out of convenience instead of an overt gesture of re-unification as it may be interpreted. Despite the motivation of the volunteer undertakers, it created a unique situation; whereas local officials claim that the small plot could be the only location in southeastern United States where both Union and Confederate soldiers were buried in a common plot between 1861-1865.

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/c642591e1a20c233e66cccdd81585367.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/ab9bd0347444ba06b501c4ecca97a37a.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/46888267f575cf52128f565bdaec438a.jpg)

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/11/25/9e6585fe4e1e460d4b49d7213cb97a0c.jpg)

The North Carolina Railroad provided a major carrier for Confederate forces. During the early months of the war, eager volunteers from Georgia, Alabama, and the counties of western North Carolina passed through Thomasville on their ways to camps or battlefields in Virginia and the Tidewater region of the state. An officer from nearby Camp Fisher described a typical scene: "It is a great sight to see those [Regiments] pass, our men are formed in lines 8 steps of the Road when they pass. In passing they wave their hats and cry "Victory or Death from Georgia!" but are going to defend our native states. Most of our men shed tears at such scenes."1 It was the same railroad that took the Thomasville Rifles into the Civil War, as countless other companies. In addition, the Corps of Lieutenant James Longstreet used the same railroad on its return to the Army of Northern Virginia after a sojourn with the beleaguered Confederate Armies of the West in 1863. The last days of the Confederate Army saw heavy use along the railroad, as Southern officials utilized the tracks as interior lines to meet the possible advances of Union Generals Stoneman and Sherman. Confederate General Pierre G. T. Beauregard, the hero of Fort Sumter, would depend on the railroad to allocate troops throughout the North Carolina piedmont.

https://vimeo.com/146973245

And here is a train, cause I like 'em
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on November 25, 2015, 20:24:53 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on November 25, 2015, 14:23:17 PM
'c;

That's hard to beat. I expect future replies to be something about memorialized treason or humor or an animated GIF or maybe the old reliable:

Dey terk ar jerbs

Brian, I know it may not be enough but can you give us your feelings on this in 168 paragraphs or less?

:D
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: 5xTippett on November 25, 2015, 22:29:36 PM
Yallarhammer gets the history of the causes right.  I might add that before the war the south paid the majority of the taxes with the majority being spent up North.  The North couldn't afford for the South to leave.   
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on November 27, 2015, 05:33:50 AM
I like these.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on November 29, 2015, 20:45:31 PM
Don't say this very often :o but ditto what Muddy just said.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on December 02, 2015, 09:30:03 AM
I've been doing a little reading about the Civil War, which made me curious about who in my family might have been "traitors" as G likes to say.  So I found an online database that let's you search military records.  $10 bucks for 7 days of access.  My mother's side of the family has unique surnames, so finding that bunch was easy.  Paternal grandmother's side from Virginia has pretty common surnames, so it's difficult to tell who is who.  Anyway, you punch in last and first names, Confederate or Union Army, and the state they served and if you get lucky, you get his war record.

Anybody got an ancestor they want to look up while I still have access to this database?  If your last name is Smith or Jones...forget about it.  I need the first and last names, Army served, State served, county they were from, unit or regiment if you know it.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on December 02, 2015, 10:59:03 AM
John Green, Confederate, Haywood County, NC, 29th NC Infantry I believe-his unit was known as the Haywood Fire Shooters..
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: benben reincarnated on December 02, 2015, 11:01:05 AM
Malcolm, I'm about to shoot you an email with a sizable list of names.  I am directly descended from 4 ancestors that I am aware of that served during the American Civil War.  I also have located 10 other uncles that had served, many of them killed during the war.  Any additional info you can find on these would be awesome!

I also can trace lineage back to veterans of the War of 1812 and the Revolutionary War.  Final tidbit, I have a many times great grandfather that was hung for being a loyalist in 1779 in South Carolina.  It's interesting the information you can find when tracing your roots.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on December 02, 2015, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on December 02, 2015, 10:59:03 AM
John Green, Confederate, Haywood County, NC, 29th NC Infantry I believe-his unit was known as the Haywood Fire Shooters..


John Green
Residence Haywood County NC; 40 years old.
Enlisted on 4/6/1863 at Haywood County, NC as a Private.
On 4/6/1863 he mustered into "E" Co. NC 29th Infantry
He died POW on 7/19/1863 at Yazoo City, MS

He was listed as:
* POW 7/13/1863 Yazoo City, MS
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on December 02, 2015, 11:35:27 AM
Quote from: benben on December 02, 2015, 11:01:05 AM
Malcolm, I'm about to shoot you an email with a sizable list of names.  I am directly descended from 4 ancestors that I am aware of that served during the American Civil War.  I also have located 10 other uncles that had served, many of them killed during the war.  Any additional info you can find on these would be awesome!

I also can trace lineage back to veterans of the War of 1812 and the Revolutionary War.  Final tidbit, I have a many times great grandfather that was hung for being a loyalist in 1779 in South Carolina.  It's interesting the information you can find when tracing your roots.

Found quite a few of them.  Hopefully something you didn't already know.  Check your email. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on December 02, 2015, 12:42:00 PM
I did some genealogy work a few years ago. Eye opening stuff.
I found one great-great grandfather from Nelson Co. that served with Jackson before being wounded. He survived to 97 years old.
He's the crusty bastard on my avatar. Later pic:

(http://i.imgur.com/68Cvstn.jpg)

Then I found two many times great-grandfathers who served in the Revolutionary War.
Different armies, but they seemingly crossed paths many times.
Both ended up at Yorktown, one after marching down from western MD, one via a prisoner exchange before the battle. Both survived the war. Strange circumstances. Even found one of their graves:

(http://i.imgur.com/pKoFnYS.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: flatlander on December 02, 2015, 12:57:14 PM
Where are your Hights from? 

EDIT:  I think you are a cousin, Doug.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on December 02, 2015, 13:04:45 PM
My great, great uncle Walter Kittredge made himself famous by writing the song "Tenting Tonight on the Old Camp Ground"  - lots of Utube versions of it. Think I may have posted one in the past - here is different version which rolls through a lot of original photos of the Civil War - look closely and you may find one of your ancestors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUIVAm92SIc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iUIVAm92SIc)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on December 02, 2015, 13:20:43 PM
Quote from: Flatlander on December 02, 2015, 12:57:14 PM
Where are your Hights from?

Germans. To Philly (I think) in late 1600's. PA, western MD, then Nelson Co., VA about 250 years ago.
Name started as Hecht, ended up as Hite about 125 years ago.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on December 03, 2015, 08:00:24 AM
Quote from: Flatlander on December 02, 2015, 11:03:50 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on December 02, 2015, 10:59:03 AM
John Green, Confederate, Haywood County, NC, 29th NC Infantry I believe-his unit was known as the Haywood Fire Shooters..


John Green
Residence Haywood County NC; 40 years old.
Enlisted on 4/6/1863 at Haywood County, NC as a Private.
On 4/6/1863 he mustered into "E" Co. NC 29th Infantry
He died POW on 7/19/1863 at Yazoo City, MS

He was listed as:
* POW 7/13/1863 Yazoo City, MS

Thank you, Flatlander!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on December 03, 2015, 08:07:05 AM
Quote from: benben on December 02, 2015, 11:01:05 AM
Malcolm, I'm about to shoot you an email with a sizable list of names.  I am directly descended from 4 ancestors that I am aware of that served during the American Civil War.  I also have located 10 other uncles that had served, many of them killed during the war.  Any additional info you can find on these would be awesome!

I also can trace lineage back to veterans of the War of 1812 and the Revolutionary War.  Final tidbit, I have a many times great grandfather that was hung for being a loyalist in 1779 in South Carolina.  It's interesting the information you can find when tracing your roots.

I recently found that an ancestor of mine, Captain Robert Messer, was involved as a leader of the Regulators at the Battle of Alamance in 1771; which was considered to be one of the catalysts of the American Revolution. He was convicted of treason against the Crown, and sentenced to be hung, drawn, and quartered by Governor William Tryon. He was was executed in Hillsborough.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 03, 2015, 12:35:44 PM
cool ancestry research, my folks were fighting the Mongols, Cossacks, Russians, I'm first generation American on my mom's side and second on my fathers.

Here is a story that popped up on facespasm 

QuoteOn Wednesday, October 14, 2015 the Cultural Resource Management and Protection Branch (CRMPB) received a call from Mohamed Kadasi, an engineer with the Fairfax County Utilities Design and Construction Division (UDCD). Kadasi thought that excavations for a shoulder and sidewalk improvement project near the City of Fairfax might have unearthed a historic resource. Backhoe trench excavations had struck an old, buried macadam surface. When that was lifted it exposed a cedar log road. Ken Atkins, senior inspector with UDCD, had the construction team very carefully remove the macadam so as not to disturb the logs. Inspector Atkins is very interested in history and wanted to make sure that the past was not lost. His fast action and the care taken to not impact the logs were absolutely invaluable in understanding an important part of Fairfax County history.

http://ourstoriesandperspectives.com/2015/11/27/heritage-preservation-its-all-about-teamwork/ (http://ourstoriesandperspectives.com/2015/11/27/heritage-preservation-its-all-about-teamwork/)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 16, 2015, 12:41:55 PM


Just up the road a bit across the state line there is the old J.E.B. Stuart homestead, Laurel Hill, a 1500 acre tract on the Ararat River.

"I would give anything to make a pilgrimage to the old place, and when the war is over quietly spend the rest of my days there." - J.E.B. Stuart

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-1.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-2.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-3.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-4.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-5.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-6.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-7.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-8.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-9.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-10.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-11.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-12.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-13.jpg) 

(http://www.brfff.com/btwc/ff2015/12/121515-14.jpg) 
William Letcher the great-grandfather of J.E.B. Stuart.



Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on December 17, 2015, 08:50:57 AM
Very nice history review by Woolly below  'c; 'c; 'c;

If you are thinking about visiting New Orleans as a two-fer this year, ie gals giving you a peek at their breasts for a handful of fake jewelry and a tour of the historical confederate sites you better do it this year or you'll have to be content with just a peek at titties.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LA_CONFEDERATE_SYMBOLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-16-15-40-46 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LA_CONFEDERATE_SYMBOLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-16-15-40-46)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on December 17, 2015, 17:04:18 PM
Quote from: Al on December 17, 2015, 08:50:57 AM
Very nice history review by Woolly below  'c; 'c; 'c;

If you are thinking about visiting New Orleans as a two-fer this year, ie gals giving you a peek at their breasts for a handful of fake jewelry and a tour of the historical confederate sites you better do it this year or you'll have to be content with just a peek at titties.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LA_CONFEDERATE_SYMBOLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-16-15-40-46 (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/L/LA_CONFEDERATE_SYMBOLS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2015-12-16-15-40-46)

Here is update - done deal!

http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/confederate_monuments_lee_circ.html (http://www.nola.com/politics/index.ssf/2015/12/confederate_monuments_lee_circ.html)


In the meantime back in Virginia 

http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/sen-carrico-files-bill-to-allow-confederate-flag-on-license/article_86e54ebe-22ba-5634-9c69-76714f91fd55.html (http://www.roanoke.com/news/local/sen-carrico-files-bill-to-allow-confederate-flag-on-license/article_86e54ebe-22ba-5634-9c69-76714f91fd55.html)

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on December 17, 2015, 19:55:14 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on December 17, 2015, 18:42:50 PM
We knew this was coming Al. It is a Pyrrhic victory. It doesn't mean the events never happened. Wait till Fort Bragg is renamed Fort Obama.


Naaaaa, they will leave Bragg alone. From what I have read he was a very timid General who missed many opportunities. Much like our current Commander In Chief.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 17, 2015, 19:58:19 PM
QuoteDespite her vote to remove the monuments, Councilwoman LaToya Cantrell said she was offended that the proposal came from the mayor's office rather than including the council from the beginning.

She also asked to know who would pay for the monuments' removal.

"I have to be honest with you, when this process stated, when it began with a man ... when it began with a man of privilege coming out saying, apologizing for slavery and seconds later making it public that he was going to come to this body for the removal of four monuments selected by him, I felt disrespected by that," she said.

WTF??
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 17, 2015, 21:38:35 PM
The war ain't over yet!


(AP) - The latest developments from a New Orleans City Council meeting and vote Thursday to remove prominent Confederate monuments (all times local):
8 p.m.
Four organizations whose goals are to protect and preserve New Orleans' historic landscape have filed a federal lawsuit to halt efforts to remove four prominent Confederate monuments.
The Louisiana Landmarks Society, Foundation for Historical Louisiana, Monumental Task Committee and Beauregard Camp No. 130 on Thursday challenged the City Council's vote to remove the structures and Mayor Mitch Landrieu's approval of the ordinance.
The mayor says it will cost about $170,000 to remove the monuments, including statues of Confederate Gens. P.G.T. Beauregard and Robert E. Lee, Confederate President Jefferson Davis and an 1891 obelisk honoring the Crescent City White League, which challenged Louisiana's biracial government after the Civil War.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on January 04, 2016, 12:06:19 PM
Confederate graves, Gov. Aycock marker vandalized at Oakwood Cemetery http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/wake-county/article52846530.html

(http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/16/01/04/5614acc26fd63b1ae8bedc997bd24c3c.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: joefriday on January 13, 2016, 10:23:46 AM
I've been lucky to spend several months in Georgia and visit Civil War sites between Atlanta and Tennessee:


Confederate Cemetery in Jonesboro:
(https://farm1.staticflickr.com/652/22915770571_0cc5fa8c71_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AUZjdB)Texas CSA (https://flic.kr/p/AUZjdB) by Joe Friday (https://www.flickr.com/photos/131214203@N07/), on Flickr

Historic Oakland Cemetery in Atlanta:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5345/17950291186_54f7c5dcbf_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/tmcWc5)Oakland Cemetery (https://flic.kr/p/tmcWc5) by Joe Friday (https://www.flickr.com/photos/131214203@N07/), on Flickr

Chickamauga Battlefield:
(https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5830/22904639005_067883ede2_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/AU1gc4)Union Soldier (https://flic.kr/p/AU1gc4) by Joe Friday (https://www.flickr.com/photos/131214203@N07/), on Flickr

(https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8828/17354140164_378b7ec7d3_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/srwvgb)Brotherton Cabin: Chickamauga (https://flic.kr/p/srwvgb) by Joe Friday (https://www.flickr.com/photos/131214203@N07/), on Flickr

Lookout Mountain:
(https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7725/17244056640_9dbb9e72da_c.jpg) (https://flic.kr/p/sgNigo)Lookout Mountain:  Chattanooga, TN (https://flic.kr/p/sgNigo) by Joe Friday (https://www.flickr.com/photos/131214203@N07/), on Flickr

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Native Fisher on March 04, 2016, 08:38:40 AM
Somebody in government has some sense.
http://www.whsv.com/content/news/Virginia-bill-to-protect-war-memorials-370991111.html (http://www.whsv.com/content/news/Virginia-bill-to-protect-war-memorials-370991111.html)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on March 25, 2016, 16:57:22 PM
Here is a some work for you folks who own or work for a construction firm -  looking for bids and my guess is you can even bid high due to need to hire a security firm

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3509449/Removal-Confederate-symbols-turns-nasty-New-Orleans.html (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3509449/Removal-Confederate-symbols-turns-nasty-New-Orleans.html)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on May 31, 2016, 19:31:26 PM
Hunters shocked to find civil war ammo in 185-year-old Gator
Read more at http://americangg.net/civil-war-gator/#ixT3VpMlh2ChByD8.99


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on May 31, 2016, 19:37:43 PM
I think Hiner was in attendance at the reunion

http://youtu.be/s6jSqt39vFM


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 14, 2016, 20:34:52 PM
The War isn't over yet!!!  b';

QuoteALAMANCE COUNTY, N.C. – A group is working on placing a large Confederate battle flag in every North Carolina county that Interstate 40 runs through.

The Burlington Times-News reported that Alamance County Taking Back Alamance County — or ACTBAC NC — is raising funds to line Interstate 40 with Confederate battle flags.

"It's mainly to show support for our ancestors and to keep Southern pride alive, more or less," Gary Williamson told the paper. "Our ancestors and our way of life have been under attack for the last year, and all of our memorials are going to be dedicated to the Sons of Confederate Veterans from that specific county we are in."

The group organized a rally in support of Alamance County's Confederate monument last year.

http://myfox8.com/2016/08/14/group-wants-to-place-large-confederate-flags-along-interstate-40/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 15, 2016, 08:53:56 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 14, 2016, 20:34:52 PM
The War isn't over yet!!!  b';

QuoteALAMANCE COUNTY, N.C. – A group is working on placing a large Confederate battle flag in every North Carolina county that Interstate 40 runs through.

The Burlington Times-News reported that Alamance County Taking Back Alamance County — or ACTBAC NC — is raising funds to line Interstate 40 with Confederate battle flags.

"It's mainly to show support for our ancestors and to keep Southern pride alive, more or less," Gary Williamson told the paper. "Our ancestors and our way of life have been under attack for the last year, and all of our memorials are going to be dedicated to the Sons of Confederate Veterans from that specific county we are in."

The group organized a rally in support of Alamance County's Confederate monument last year.

http://myfox8.com/2016/08/14/group-wants-to-place-large-confederate-flags-along-interstate-40/

I wish someone would intelligently, coherently explain "Southern pride".   
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on August 15, 2016, 13:29:52 PM
If you have to have it explained to you, you will never feel it. :D
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 16, 2016, 08:35:43 AM
Like art, you'll know it when you see it

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160816/98211d076981be209231fcfb6780deb1.jpg)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 16, 2016, 09:46:30 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 16, 2016, 08:35:43 AM
Like art, you'll know it when you see it

Now I get it!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on August 16, 2016, 10:34:55 AM
Yes, every southern person is exactly like y'all are portraying. We are all extremely ignorant and illiterate. And we're all racists. And incestuous, too.

Southerners: the only group of people that it's still politically correct to stereotype and make fun of.

n!n
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 16, 2016, 12:50:05 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on August 16, 2016, 10:34:55 AM
Yes, every southern person is exactly like y'all are portraying. We are all extremely ignorant and illiterate. And we're all racists. And incestuous, too.

Southerners: the only group of people that it's still politically correct to stereotype and make fun of.

n!n

Relax Steve; southerners have much to be proud of (end with a prep, I think). 

http://youtu.be/ZJ6QCG_92uA
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 29, 2016, 08:33:46 AM
Is it legal to wear a Confederate flag shirt for jury duty in South Carolina? Apparently, yes. http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/state/south-carolina/article98342522.html

(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160829/743adf2ee9a647ec77202f532f28b2de.jpg)


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 15, 2016, 08:43:58 AM
(http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160915/5acff6bb3c80e7f27c18b0823ab4da96.jpg)
http://wsls.com/2016/09/13/confederate-sword-donated-to-rocky-mount-goodwill-store-to-be-sold-at-auction/


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 29, 2016, 19:29:37 PM
Funny, but likely to piss off a few.

http://youtu.be/T-uFY_RLKzo
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: driver on September 29, 2016, 20:42:11 PM
Lol. Bill is hilarious.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 30, 2016, 11:39:54 AM
"don't want to offend my southern friends, mostly because they are on meth and packing heat!!!!"

TFF!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on September 30, 2016, 11:44:31 AM
I lol'd.  :laugh:
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on February 07, 2017, 11:12:39 AM
http://wtvr.com/2017/02/07/robert-e-lee-statue-removed/ (http://wtvr.com/2017/02/07/robert-e-lee-statue-removed/)

CHARLOTTESVILLE, Va. — The City of Charlottesville will remove a 93-year-old statue of Civil War general Robert E. Lee from a city park that beared his name. Charlottesville City Council also voted Monday to rename the park that sits on the Virginia Civil War Trails.

Monday night's 3-2 vote came after months of debate.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 25, 2017, 17:00:51 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170425/408cfcf3bc48593e3a81129067edfa7d.jpg)

Salisbury


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 06, 2017, 02:41:42 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170706/d6773769c3e6fdfea9818292762e96eb.png)

http://nypost.com/2017/07/06/trumps-presidential-salary-will-fund-antietam-restoration/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on July 06, 2017, 07:12:41 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/where-will-the-removal-of-confederate-monuments-stop/532125/

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 06, 2017, 13:30:49 PM
Quote from: Beetle on July 06, 2017, 07:12:41 AM
https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/06/where-will-the-removal-of-confederate-monuments-stop/532125/

"As Landrieu pointed out, many of today's contested Confederate monuments were raised long after the war, during periods of white backlash against civil rights: in the Redemption period, or during the mid-20th century civil-rights movement."

If true, this falls right into my wheelhouse.  Timing is everything.

It continues to ruffle my feathers that:

1954 God added to Pledge
1956 Motto changed from unofficial E pluribus unum to In God We Trust
1860's God added to coins
1957 God added to paper money

...but undeniably, I'm twisted when it comes to this kind of stuff. 

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 06, 2017, 14:34:38 PM
In the meantime while the rest of the country is tearing down or hiding their Confederate Memorials, Fayetteville NC is raising money seed money which will then be doubled or tripled by the state for a museum to highlight North Carolina's participation in the Civil War.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: wildmttwalleye on July 06, 2017, 14:36:05 PM
I've always heard that God was added to so many things as a way to separate us from the Soviets and their communist ideals during the cold war. Any truth to this?

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on July 06, 2017, 16:30:46 PM
Good article.   They certainly did a good job of explaining away many of the potential land mines that apologists would identify.

I've thought a lot about The Mexican War and how so many Confederates fought for the US only to turn around and fight against it.   Must have been an incredibly difficult situation.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 13, 2017, 11:34:56 AM
http://www.wcyb.com/news/virginia/charlottesville-says-state-law-doesnt-protect-lee-statue/586077683

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170713/6135a0f4e921f70a06fd7972112b7fbb.png)


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 17, 2017, 09:03:25 AM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170717/5a6483282d1d36df8578ef6252b10f5a.png)

http://nypost.com/2017/07/17/found-sword-belonged-to-commander-of-all-black-civil-war-regiment/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 14, 2017, 21:52:16 PM
Another one down

https://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2017/08/14/Protesters-tear-down-Confederate-monument-in-Durham-NC/2041502756987/

https://youtu.be/H-uAZa4H1vk
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 07:52:19 AM
There has been talk on social media about tearing down the soldier memorial in Winston -- this will motivate them

Remembering the soldiers who lost there lives is different than honoring the generals imho


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: sanjuanwormhatch on August 15, 2017, 08:40:16 AM
Some dispatches from Georgia.

1.  Genius protesters on Sunday night defaced a statue celebrating the Confederate surrender.

2.  Gubernatorial candidate Stacy Abrams calls for removal of Confederate monument at the iconic Stone Mountain. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 15, 2017, 08:45:37 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 07:52:19 AM
There has been talk on social media about tearing down the soldier memorial in Winston -- this will motivate them

Remembering the soldiers who lost there lives is different than honoring the generals imho


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Agree, and this lawlessness should not be condoned. It's been said the average foot soldier didn't even understand what they were fighting for. Slave ownership was for the elites that could afford them.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 15, 2017, 08:47:00 AM
Quote from: sanjuanwormhatch on August 15, 2017, 08:40:16 AM
Some dispatches from Georgia.

1.  Genius protesters on Sunday night defaced a statue celebrating the Confederate surrender.

2.  Gubernatorial candidate Stacy Abrams calls for removal of Confederate monument at the iconic Stone Mountain.
Stone Mountain needs to go. It is like Stonehenge to white supremacists.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on August 15, 2017, 09:11:48 AM
Quote from: troutfanatic on August 15, 2017, 08:47:00 AM
Quote from: sanjuanwormhatch on August 15, 2017, 08:40:16 AM
Some dispatches from Georgia.

1.  Genius protesters on Sunday night defaced a statue celebrating the Confederate surrender.

2.  Gubernatorial candidate Stacy Abrams calls for removal of Confederate monument at the iconic Stone Mountain.
Stone Mountain needs to go. It is like Stonehenge to white supremacists.

It is privately owned, brings in crazy amount of money, and is in Georgia, ain't gonna happen. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 15, 2017, 10:16:34 AM
Perhaps, but the lawless anarchists can remove it for them regardless of ownership
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 10:18:17 AM
interesting read http://xroads.virginia.edu/~HYPER/INCORP/monuments/front.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 10:48:31 AM
QuoteDestroying or removing the structures eliminates opportunities for productively using our past. Critical contextualization is the better alternative

The Meaning of Our Confederate Monuments (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/the-meaning-of-our-confederate-monuments.html)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Phil on August 15, 2017, 10:57:08 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 10:48:31 AM
QuoteDestroying or removing the structures eliminates opportunities for productively using our past. Critical contextualization is the better alternative

The Meaning of Our Confederate Monuments (https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/15/opinion/the-meaning-of-our-confederate-monuments.html)

Good article, Woolly. Thanks for linking it.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on August 15, 2017, 11:30:46 AM
The issue of monuments, memorials and exhibits has been simmering on the back burner for a while.
The heat got turned up more than a little bit by the weekend's actions. The attention the hate groups/extremists brought was like pouring gasoline on the fire.
Is that what they wanted? An escalation? Or is that going to blow up on them? Look for more organizations to be officially labeled hate groups by the Feds and states. And look for a limit on permits to gather based on that designation. Some lawyers will stay even busier.

Meanwhile, communities will continue to grapple with their history vs. their present.
Right up the highway is Lexington, VA. 7,000+ citizens.
A historic downtown cemetery with lots of confederate graves and memorials.
Home of VMI. The VMI that cadets marched from to join the Confederate Army at the battle of New Market.
Also home to Washington & Lee. Both schools have moved all their displays into private museum space.
You can hide the stuffed Traveler behind closed doors, but Lee is on thousands of diplomas. How many more?
It's a gut wrenching basket of decisions for the schools, the alumni, the town and the state.

Travel up and down Memorial Ave. in Richmond. The Capitol of the Confederacy. From 1890 t0 1929 statues were dedicated to Lee, Stuart, Jackson, Davis, and Maury. Grand statues on a grand street, all facing downtown.
Aurther Ashe was added later, during round one of the furor in 1996. It is the smallest, the furthermost from downtown and he faces away from downtown.
Do all but Ashe head to the grounds of the White House of The Confederacy downtown as more museum pieces?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on August 15, 2017, 11:36:11 AM
And then there is the patriot label. The Lee family of Westmoreland Co. No truer patriots served our nation. Did R. E. end that line?  Quite the debate.(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170815/0529967ace269f4e9af648ffa7b2d84b.jpg)

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 12:41:53 PM
Another article to read

http://www.nccivilwar150.com/features/nc-civil-war_death-study.htm


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Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 13:11:26 PM
Greensboro

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170815/728eb36e7d33171ded3b255b18388c94.jpg)
Last stand... before Johnson surrendered ..

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 14:54:38 PM
Stone Mountain Status -- State Owned

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/08/15/abrams-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-faces-off-stone-mountain/

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on August 15, 2017, 20:18:19 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 14:54:38 PM
Stone Mountain Status -- State Owned

http://politics.blog.ajc.com/2017/08/15/abrams-calls-for-removal-of-confederate-faces-off-stone-mountain/

State owns the land, but it has a long term lease to a private company. In legal terms, privately owned until that contract expires or is broken.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 15, 2017, 23:00:10 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170816/25a6f69dda577bf4d10e18509ed0e1c4.png)
http://nypost.com/2017/08/15/robert-e-lee-memorial-in-brooklyn-to-be-taken-down/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app

He who's name shall not be spoken???



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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 16, 2017, 08:08:05 AM
Baltimore removed four statues in the dead of night!

Women arrested in Durham vandalism of statue.

And DC's Lincoln Memorial vandalized with spray-painted expletive
http://wr.al/18pxy(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170816/242d8db294825e099d319925c5dd51bb.png)

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170816/852a077ac6d413d796bc326bd42dfd10.png)


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on August 17, 2017, 06:59:18 AM
http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Gov-McAuliffe-calls-for-removal-of-Confederate-monuments-in-Virginia-440842093.html (http://www.wdbj7.com/content/news/Gov-McAuliffe-calls-for-removal-of-Confederate-monuments-in-Virginia-440842093.html)
Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 19, 2017, 05:47:33 AM
http://wxii12.com/article/confederate-monument-vandalized-in-winston-salem/12035637?src=app


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170819/bc6ef0c72d8fd97971a74f85fc61af8b.png)




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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on August 19, 2017, 07:45:56 AM
We are on the verge of another Civil War. It is one thing to have your elected officials decide to remove monuments- that's the democratic process even though we may disagree.

But it is another thing entirely to have thugs vandalize them - that is throwing gasoline on the fire which IMHO is their intention. It is not vandalizem,  it is inciting a riot.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: wildmttwalleye on August 19, 2017, 10:49:11 AM
Quote from: Al on August 19, 2017, 07:45:56 AM
We are on the verge of another Civil War. It is one thing to have your elected officials decide to remove monuments- that's the democratic process even though we may disagree.

But it is another thing entirely to have thugs vandalize them - that is throwing gasoline on the fire which IMHO is their intention. It is not vandalizem,  it is inciting a riot.
Step away from the news and you will find we are not nearly as divided as many want us to believe

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 19, 2017, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: DAYUMson on August 19, 2017, 10:49:11 AM
Quote from: Al on August 19, 2017, 07:45:56 AM
We are on the verge of another Civil War. It is one thing to have your elected officials decide to remove monuments- that's the democratic process even though we may disagree.

But it is another thing entirely to have thugs vandalize them - that is throwing gasoline on the fire which IMHO is their intention. It is not vandalizem,  it is inciting a riot.
Step away from the news and you will find we are not nearly as divided as many want us to believe

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Exactly. The media and the political elites with their moneyed interests pulling their strings are the only ones who want this "division" because they are the only ones who benefit.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on August 19, 2017, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on August 19, 2017, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: DAYUMson on August 19, 2017, 10:49:11 AM
Quote from: Al on August 19, 2017, 07:45:56 AM
We are on the verge of another Civil War. It is one thing to have your elected officials decide to remove monuments- that's the democratic process even though we may disagree.

But it is another thing entirely to have thugs vandalize them - that is throwing gasoline on the fire which IMHO is their intention. It is not vandalizem,  it is inciting a riot.
Step away from the news and you will find we are not nearly as divided as many want us to believe

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Exactly. The media and the political elites with their moneyed interests pulling their strings are the only ones who want this "division" because they are the only ones who benefit.


Therein lies the problem.

The KKK, Wannabee Militias, White Supremacists and the like are disdained by 99.9% of the population. They a very small fringe group.  Even if they combined forces they couldn't stand up to a battalion of regular troops. If they would ignored they would eventually go away.

The ultra-left on the other hand are egged on by the media and political elites who use them as "useful idiots" to help retain power and further the agenda of converting this country into something most of us do not want. They are also financed by individuals and groups who use them for the same purpose. Neither the media, political elite or their financial backers have "what's good for the country as their primary motivator 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 19, 2017, 13:19:36 PM
Quote from: Al on August 19, 2017, 12:40:46 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on August 19, 2017, 11:41:31 AM
Quote from: DAYUMson on August 19, 2017, 10:49:11 AM
Quote from: Al on August 19, 2017, 07:45:56 AM
We are on the verge of another Civil War. It is one thing to have your elected officials decide to remove monuments- that's the democratic process even though we may disagree.

But it is another thing entirely to have thugs vandalize them - that is throwing gasoline on the fire which IMHO is their intention. It is not vandalizem,  it is inciting a riot.
Step away from the news and you will find we are not nearly as divided as many want us to believe

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Exactly. The media and the political elites with their moneyed interests pulling their strings are the only ones who want this "division" because they are the only ones who benefit.


Therein lies the problem.

The KKK, Wannabee Militias, White Supremacists and the like are disdained by 99.9% of the population. They a very small fringe group.  Even if they combined forces they couldn't stand up to a battalion of regular troops. If they would ignored they would eventually go away.

The ultra-left on the other hand are egged on by the media and political elites who use them as "useful idiots" to help retain power and further the agenda of converting this country into something most of us do not want. They are also financed by individuals and groups who use them for the same purpose. Neither the media, political elite or their financial backers have "what's good for the country as their primary motivator

I don't know about this, and I certainly do not have any true answers or solutions, only opinions, like most others.

I fail to blame the media, politicians, the left, or the right for any divisions; we're all to blame.  We're evolutionarily wired to be fucked up, in my opinion.

Not to offend Big J., my one identifiable, passionate, non-hypocritical, religious friend (I may have more but he's the only one that I know of that is praying for my soul), but I also blame religion for many of the world's ills and divisions, historically and present, and not just one religion, BUT all religions.   If you worship something as benign as trees with an injudicious unverifiable conviction, then I feel you're on a toxic path.  With me all faiths are fair game.

Combine all these --our evolved flaws, our mythical dogmas, our ignorance, and our fear of death, and you have a venomous synergistic recipe.
 
Peace, you imperfect beings
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 19, 2017, 14:23:49 PM
I believe if you condemn one side, you must condemn the other. Yes, the neonazis and klan types killed someone in Charlottesville, currently they are the worse of the two, but the anti-fascist groups are equally violent, and they go to these event specifically to incite chaos.

It was revealed this week that the neonazi leader was a member of occupy wallstreet, and had supported president Obama. The occupy movement is just antifa under a different moniker. That's a pretty steep cliff to jump off of in just eight years- from far left occupy, to far right nazi shit. I smell a rat.

The centrist answer is to ignore them both unless they present an immediate problem to you. turn off the news, all of it, and go live your lives. You can fight discrimination in everyday life without wearing a mask and inciting riots. You can stand for free speech without waving confederate flags and burning crosses.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on August 19, 2017, 16:48:47 PM
Yes. When you go far enough to either the right or left, you circle around until you meet each other. The neo-nazis and the anti-fa are basically the same type of folks, who are only interested in stirring up shit, getting attention, destroying stuff, exercising anarchy, and keeping friction going between normal folks. Interestingly enough, the folks who style themselves as "anti-fascists," very closely meet the definition of fascists: collective authoritarians.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on August 19, 2017, 16:55:10 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on August 19, 2017, 16:48:47 PM
Yes. When you go far enough to either the right or left, you circle around until you meet each other. The neo-nazis and the anti-fa are basically the same type of folks, who are only interested in stirring up shit, getting attention, destroying stuff, exercising anarchy, and keeping friction going between normal folks. Interestingly enough, the folks who style themselves as "anti-fascists," very closely meet the definition of fascists: collective authoritarians.

I would love to know how many anti-fa folk donate food to food banks, and donate to charities that help the poor. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 19, 2017, 17:00:46 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on August 19, 2017, 16:48:47 PM
Yes. When you go far enough to either the right or left, you circle around until you meet each other. The neo-nazis and the anti-fa are basically the same type of folks, who are only interested in stirring up shit, getting attention, destroying stuff, exercising anarchy, and keeping friction going between normal folks. Interestingly enough, the folks who style themselves as "anti-fascists," very closely meet the definition of fascists: collective authoritarians.

Spot on. There is no middle ground with either group. I got into an argument with one of the antifa types and it could best be summarized as, "if you don't agree with us 100%, you are a passive nazi supporter." Any effort to argue logically or debate with them is answered by calling you a bigot, racist, fascist, or homophobe. Conversely, the nazi/klan side won't tolerate moderation, because you are complicit with eradicating white heritage... blah blah blah.

This is not positive dialogue in anyway. Replacing one extremist idea with another is a losing battle every time.

Ken,
I doubt that happens. Most of these antifa types are already dependent on others, like their parents.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on August 19, 2017, 17:27:41 PM
I pray for more of you all then I like to admit. You all need some help.

You can always go to far to one side of another with a belief, even truly moral ones. currently have a little one that was born who is being held over another day. Rough delivery, battling some blood sugar issues and now Jaundice from the bruising that is healing. Life is too short and fragile. So screw the KKK and Antifa and the KKK and the nazis and the KKK. And don't get a bass boat.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on August 19, 2017, 17:56:12 PM
Dickheads. Just call them all dickheads. Slam dunk. Dickheads.Or assholes. Take your pick. I've got more labels, if needed.

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 19, 2017, 17:59:23 PM
Quote from: Big J on August 19, 2017, 17:27:41 PM
I pray for more of you all then I like to admit. You all need some help.

You can always go to far to one side of another with a belief, even truly moral ones. currently have a little one that was born who is being held over another day. Rough delivery, battling some blood sugar issues and now Jaundice from the bruising that is healing. Life is too short and fragile. So screw the KKK and Antifa and the KKK and the nazis and the KKK. And don't get a bass boat.

Hang in there, and I shall keep Sailor's sibling in my thoughts. Your point is relevant. Ken's point is relevant, and so is Grayson's there is always something bigger than the latest headline, the latest political fiasco. Right now, a thoughts about a healthy baby prevail for me.

don't get a bass boat Mud.

Yep, dickheads Doug.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 19, 2017, 19:34:55 PM
Quote from: Onslow on August 19, 2017, 16:55:10 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on August 19, 2017, 16:48:47 PM
Yes. When you go far enough to either the right or left, you circle around until you meet each other. The neo-nazis and the anti-fa are basically the same type of folks, who are only interested in stirring up shit, getting attention, destroying stuff, exercising anarchy, and keeping friction going between normal folks. Interestingly enough, the folks who style themselves as "anti-fascists," very closely meet the definition of fascists: collective authoritarians.

I would love to know how many anti-fa folk donate food to food banks, and donate to charities that help the poor.

Sorry, I do not fully comprehend why this statement seems so biased, but shouldn't we also ask if the whitey groups donate, or do you already know that tidbit? 

Personally I think some you have a twisted sense of equality and conveying accountability.  See, I can be Onslow-like, and gaze into your souls.  Who organized/planned/advertised the event?  Are the alt-right types and the antifascists equally violent?  How many deaths are the results of the actions of the two extremes? 

Stop smoking your socks. 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on August 19, 2017, 20:13:14 PM
Babies are important and relevant. Activist dickheads aren't. And bass boats are cool. Well, aluminum ones are. Rangers and Skeeters and Nitros aren't. :D
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on August 19, 2017, 20:44:07 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 19, 2017, 19:34:55 PM
Quote from: Onslow on August 19, 2017, 16:55:10 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on August 19, 2017, 16:48:47 PM
Yes. When you go far enough to either the right or left, you circle around until you meet each other. The neo-nazis and the anti-fa are basically the same type of folks, who are only interested in stirring up shit, getting attention, destroying stuff, exercising anarchy, and keeping friction going between normal folks. Interestingly enough, the folks who style themselves as "anti-fascists," very closely meet the definition of fascists: collective authoritarians.

I would love to know how many anti-fa folk donate food to food banks, and donate to charities that help the poor.

Sorry, I do not fully comprehend why this statement seems so biased, but shouldn't we also ask if the whitey groups donate, or do you already know that tidbit? 

Personally I think some you have a twisted sense of equality and conveying accountability.  See, I can be Onslow-like, and gaze into your souls.  Who organized/planned/advertised the event?  Are the alt-right types and the antifascists equally violent?  How many deaths are the results of the actions of the two extremes? 

Stop smoking your socks.

You habitually make assertions about churchgoers based on pure conjecture, and fantasy.  Put that in your pipe!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 19, 2017, 20:58:10 PM
Quote from: Onslow on August 19, 2017, 20:44:07 PM
You habitually make assertions about churchgoers based on pure conjecture, and fantasy.  Put that in your pipe!

Wrong, I make proclamations about churchgoers all the time, never usually, and it is always based on pure observation, their actions, and their hypocrisy.  Trust me it ain't a fantasy; it is a fucking tangible nightmare! 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 19, 2017, 21:07:34 PM
they are equally violent would you like some proof? Recent history makes the fascists look bad, and the anarchists look like humble activists. Yes, the racist assholes are worse humans, but I won't stand with or for communists because they highjack a benevolent cause (equality). These are not Sanders voting democratic socialists, nor are they center left Clinton supporters. They are communists.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on August 20, 2017, 08:20:14 AM
Putin floating the boat.

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: JMiller on August 20, 2017, 08:21:38 AM
IMO, you know you've got it good as a country when the worst shit people can find to be pissed about are statues that they don't like.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 20, 2017, 13:06:07 PM
Chapel Hill mayor wants Silent Sam removed from UNC campus
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article168076182.html

Chapel Hill wants Silent Sam removed --- watch the video "like I was really scared" so I guess he wasn't...


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 22, 2017, 11:09:32 AM
https://youtu.be/iFSW0id36FA

BALTIMORE, MD - A centuries-old monument in honor of Christopher Columbus crumbled in Baltimore with several swings of a sledgehammer.

Authorities are asking for tips after the suspects who destroyed the obelisk posted a YouTube video showing the crime in progress.

Police said that in addition to the sledgehammer-wielding individual, two others were at the scene - one filming, another holding a sign.

According to a YouTube video posted by "Popular Resistance," they filmed the act in the "dark of night on Aug. 21" to end the "Columbian wave of destruction." Said the narrator: "Part of our evolution as humans requires tearing down monuments to destructive forces and tearing down systems that maintain them."

https://patch.com/maryland/baltimore/oldest-christopher-columbus-monument-u-s-destroyed-sledgehammer

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 22, 2017, 23:27:24 PM
'Tear it down': Protesters gather at Silent Sam statue on UNC campus
http://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article168748747.html

Watch the video of the protesters !


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 23, 2017, 06:30:18 AM
https://vimeo.com/230304650
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: benben reincarnated on August 23, 2017, 09:00:01 AM
http://www.espn.com/espn/wire/_/section/ncf/id/20423088
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on August 23, 2017, 09:23:25 AM
Quote from: DAYUMson on August 19, 2017, 10:49:11 AM
Quote from: Al on August 19, 2017, 07:45:56 AM
We are on the verge of another Civil War. It is one thing to have your elected officials decide to remove monuments- that's the democratic process even though we may disagree.

But it is another thing entirely to have thugs vandalize them - that is throwing gasoline on the fire which IMHO is their intention. It is not vandalizem,  it is inciting a riot.
Step away from the news and you will find we are not nearly as divided as many want us to believe

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

http://goo.gl/1dSBL

Tugg Speedman:"When we put aside our differences, we see we're kind of the same. When we put aside our differences, we see we're kind of the same. Let's be friends. I know we can do great things, together."

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BrookieHunter on August 23, 2017, 19:11:01 PM
I was really trying to stay out of this but god damn!! after watching that video Woolly posted I can't believe what is going on in this country. If any of those people on either side of this argument had jobs and responsibilities none of this would be an issue.

Reassigning that ESPN broadcaster just because of his name, that is some bullshit!! We voted in a president named Hussein for crying out loud.   

Thank god i can get back to fishing next week.  p;- the media
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: driver on August 23, 2017, 22:33:15 PM
That Antifa guy on the car in the Durham video works with my wife.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 24, 2017, 16:39:32 PM
Quote from: driver on August 23, 2017, 22:33:15 PM
That Antifa guy on the car in the Durham video works with my wife.

This guy ?

(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170824/4dd292bca5084f29d86045a66e5e683d.png)




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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 24, 2017, 16:47:49 PM
Quote from: driver on August 23, 2017, 22:33:15 PM
That Antifa guy on the car in the Durham video works with my wife.

His gun was a piece of shit.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on August 24, 2017, 17:11:23 PM
Fuck a bunch of idiots that espouse diversity and equality, but are too stupid to see the irony of them discriminating against an Asian guy because of his name.

My question: when all the statues are gone and our history is cleansed, what comes nest on the list that has to disappear to appease the "activists?"
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 24, 2017, 19:34:56 PM
I think you are overly concerned. This is all a game. This shit has popped up a year before every midterm and presidential election in recent history.

~2010- tea (bag) party

~2012- Occutards

~2014- BLM

I'm more concerned that the douchenugget in the video has a plastic bitch gun. AK47s are garbage. They just look cool if you are a Che wannabe.

Now if he had a man's gun like an M1 Garand or an M14, I'd be like... damn ANTIFA, you got your shit wired tight.    b';
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on August 24, 2017, 19:44:10 PM
I'm all for diversity if it involves interracial lust/sex.  Sing it Marty, lol.

http://youtu.be/KAO7vs_Q9is

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 24, 2017, 20:40:52 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on August 24, 2017, 17:11:23 PM
...... what comes next on the list that has to disappear to appease the "activists?"

Who knows or really cares?  Activism has shaped our history, and remains everlasting.   Plus we're tribal and perhaps we need a tribe. 

https://behumanproject.net/why-are-we-tribal/

http://www.newsweek.com/biologist-eo-wilson-why-humans-ants-need-tribe-64005
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 24, 2017, 21:10:54 PM
Quote from: Onslow on August 24, 2017, 19:44:10 PM
I'm all for diversity if it involves interracial lust/sex.  Sing it Marty, lol.

http://youtu.be/KAO7vs_Q9is

Marty was kinda pretentious. Bobby did it better. I'm sure he got all kinds of strange ass.

https://youtu.be/EmdWIy-RmJE
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 25, 2017, 07:33:22 AM
It's now going beyond civil war monuments

http://nypost.com/2017/08/24/jewish-activists-target-removal-of-peter-stuyvesant-monuments/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=pasteboard_app


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 25, 2017, 10:35:34 AM
Let them get more ridiculous as time goes by. Less people will take them serious. There is a statue on Fort Bragg of a WW2 paratrooper, called Iron  Mike. It is a tribute to WW2 airborne forces. During the war years, the majority of paratroopers were Caucasian and Hispanic . There was only one small battalion of Africans.  The African unit saw no combat, and the Armed Forces were not desegregated until 1948. Therefore, in the warped mentality driving these protests, the statue is racist.
I'd enjoy anti fash protest at Fort Bragg.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Aka on August 25, 2017, 13:38:32 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 24, 2017, 20:40:52 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on August 24, 2017, 17:11:23 PM
...... what comes next on the list that has to disappear to appease the "activists?"

Who knows or really cares?  Activism has shaped our history, and remains everlasting.   Plus we're tribal and perhaps we need a tribe. 

https://behumanproject.net/why-are-we-tribal/

http://www.newsweek.com/biologist-eo-wilson-why-humans-ants-need-tribe-64005

Not only, as the great Muddy one says, has activism shaped our history (before his famous midnight ride Paul Revere was involved in various other forms of activism) it is a valuable and necessary function of democracy.

The right to petition government to redress grievances and protest in the public square is fundamental to a free people. I'm actually kind of pissed off that there are adults in this country that either don't know this or worse, don't accept it as true. That there are people in both those camps is a great indicator that we live with some dumb motherfuckers and there is a real possibility that we may one day see a true authoritarian style government take hold because of it.

99% of those protesting the monuments are peaceful and do so within the constraints of the law. But the media focuses on the tiny minority that are there to start trouble and yet all the great thinkers on this board that cry about fake news when it doesn't fit their narrative run with that as if it's the whole story.

Personally I think the monuments are funny, who puts up monuments to a bunch of losers?  I wouldn't have ever thought much more about them but I know a lot of people do, people that are meant to be diminished by them. I would hate to be in their shoes when their child asks who the guy on the horse in front of the court house or capital building is and have to explain that was one of the people that lived his life trying to keep your great, great grandparents slaves.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: rbphoto on August 25, 2017, 13:42:51 PM
For a different perspective on the whole mess:

http://midtown-church.org/2869-2/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 25, 2017, 16:45:19 PM
Idiot

Man charged with inciting a riot after social media post involving Alamance County Historic Courthouse
http://via.wghp.com/xuJUa


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: jwgnc on August 25, 2017, 17:16:08 PM
What will be the new name of Fort Bragg?

Braxton Bragg was a senior officer of the Confederate States Army.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutfanatic on August 25, 2017, 17:37:56 PM
Quote from: jwgnc on August 25, 2017, 17:16:08 PM
What will be the new name of Fort Bragg?

Braxton Bragg was a senior officer of the Confederate States Army.

Jay,
I'm proposing they rename it after Al.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BRFFF on August 20, 2018, 21:10:38 PM
Protesters knock down Silent Sam statue on UNC campushttp://via.wghp.com/KHJZR




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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BRFFF on August 24, 2018, 18:02:20 PM
Warrants issued for three of the vandals

https://youtu.be/zmzJLUuM9Wo


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BRFFF on August 25, 2018, 05:12:26 AM
'Silent Sam Will Be Reinstalled as Required by State Law' according to UNC board memberhttps://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article217275085.html


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Phil on August 25, 2018, 11:38:59 AM
Quote from: BRFFF on August 25, 2018, 05:12:26 AM
'Silent Sam Will Be Reinstalled as Required by State Law' according to UNC board memberhttps://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article217275085.html


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Good. I should have never been illegally torn down.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BRFFF on September 01, 2018, 07:45:07 AM
UNC chancellor: 'Silent Sam's' place is 'not at the front door' of the university
http://wr.al/1CjHy


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Title: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BRFFF on January 03, 2019, 18:41:14 PM
The Winston salem council gave notice to the DOC to move their Statue by the end of the month or they will declare it a public nuisance!

Now the DOC is fighting back and both sides are digging in for a court battle.

I think the mayor thought they would go quietly into the night and accept the city's offer to pay for the move to the Old Salem Cemetery and place among the 36 confederate graves there. 

City of Winston-Salem orders removal and relocation of downtown Confederate monument http://via.wghp.com/34UhR


https://www.wfdd.org/story/group-behind-citys-confederate-monument-say-effort-move-it-dishonorable


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on January 04, 2019, 14:24:49 PM
WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. (AP) — Supporters of a Confederate statue in North Carolina are planning a rally after the city where it stands ordered its removal.
The Winston-Salem Journal reports a new group called the Heirs to the Confederacy plans to meet Jan. 13 at the spot where the now-toppled "Silent Sam" statue stood at the University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill, and then ride to Winston-Salem.
Winston-Salem has told the United Daughters of the Confederacy to remove the monument by Jan. 31 or face a possible lawsuit. After two vandalism incidents in less than 1 ½ years and confrontations over Confederate monuments elsewhere, the city attorney believes it creates a public nuisance.
The city has offered to pay for the statue's relocation to a cemetery, but the UDC says it will fight the effort.

https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/north-carolina/articles/2019-01-04/confederate-statue-supporters-to-rally-over-removal-request
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BRFFF on January 15, 2019, 08:50:29 AM
http://via.wghp.com/shikY


(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190115/a1b260961f05e5bc3561ea18c199bf53.jpg)


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: JMiller on January 25, 2019, 23:08:20 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/dOjGiBM.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BRFFF on January 30, 2019, 22:26:47 PM
Looks like the city is just going to move the statue without a court battle.

https://www.wfdd.org/story/winston-salem-will-remove-controversial-confederate-statue-denies-extension


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: BRFFF on February 02, 2019, 15:26:27 PM
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190202/cbd46b9a34055819480545bcbf1e3439.jpg)

Revolutionary War statue, Confederate monument vandalized in Wilkesboro
http://via.wghp.com/f2V6E



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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 11, 2019, 09:52:20 AM
https://abc11.com/man-charged-during-confederate-monument-protest-in-raleigh/5129691/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on February 11, 2019, 21:18:03 PM
When are they going to start digging up confederate soldiers to get rid of them?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on February 11, 2019, 21:32:20 PM
When the Natzis and the KuKuKu's stop embracing the stars and bars, shit will calm down.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on February 12, 2019, 09:38:50 AM
True.

You know what really sucks?     How would you like to be the economic development / business recruitment guy in Danville, Wytheville or other VA cities where they are flying those gigantic confederate flags?   It has to be killing their efforts to attract businesses.....
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on February 12, 2019, 10:13:19 AM
Quote from: Beetle on February 12, 2019, 09:38:50 AMTrue.

You know what really sucks?     How would you like to be the economic development / business recruitment guy in Danville, Wytheville or other VA cities where they are flying those gigantic confederate flags?   It has to be killing their efforts to attract businesses.....

And many of the people trying to lead the economic development are black business/community leaders.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on February 12, 2019, 10:51:06 AM
I'd like to hear Hiner's viewpoint on this.......but he seems to be in hiding right now.     
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 12, 2019, 11:02:05 AM
Quote from: Beetle on February 12, 2019, 09:38:50 AMTrue.

You know what really sucks?    How would you like to be the economic development / business recruitment guy in Danville, Wytheville or other VA cities where they are flying those gigantic confederate flags?  It has to be killing their efforts to attract businesses.....


NC can’t be much better â€" bathroom bills and silent Sam - plus the state law about not being able to remove statues from Public property!

Personally think that the agitators are causing a lot of negative economic effects


An interesting article in my alma matters's newspaper The Carolinian.

https://carolinianuncg.com/2019/01/30/winston-salem-confederate-monument-to-be-removed/and

Check out this photo of the monument before the courthouse was built!

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The UDC has started a crowdsource effort to raise money for legal defense.

https://www.ncgunowners.com/xf/threads/protect-the-winston-salem-monument.75918/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 13, 2019, 10:47:32 AM
https://youtu.be/jcKZXVmYC4s

The history of the Winston Salem Courthouses. Also to be noted is the "patriotic celebrations such at the clival war veterans parades" 3:19
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 20, 2019, 07:36:39 AM
 b'; You cannot see attachments on this board.

Statue of WW2 kiss vandalised after US sailor's death http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-47287048
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on February 20, 2019, 07:59:32 AM
Quote from: Beetle on February 12, 2019, 09:38:50 AMTrue.

You know what really sucks?     How would you like to be the economic development / business recruitment guy in Danville, Wytheville or other VA cities where they are flying those gigantic confederate flags?   It has to be killing their efforts to attract businesses.....

Yes, the Danville flag is truly obnoxious, but Danville has much larger issues that dwarf the flag problem.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 22, 2019, 10:15:46 AM
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http://bit.ly/2GVrOmk

Students demand that Dean of Admissions who is in the photo taken in 1982 resign!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 22, 2019, 14:12:14 PM
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The sins of the past will haunt you forever!


Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 22, 2019, 22:04:44 PM
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Idiots!

https://myfox8.com/2019/02/22/vandals-in-north-carolina-set-fire-to-gen-lee-statue-but-not-the-confederate-one/

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 24, 2019, 12:40:47 PM
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http://via.wghp.com/sOyke
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 24, 2019, 12:49:13 PM
https://nypost.com/2019/02/22/the-cutting-edge-war-to-erase-our-culture/?utm_campaign=iosapp&utm_source=mail_app

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 26, 2019, 21:26:01 PM
https://wtvr.com/2019/02/23/woman-wanted-for-vandalizing-robert-e-lee-monument/?fbclid=IwAR0ifSN0-m2n8i0ixc41BzVZsiWlr8pPaTyDvUPYtpcHXPwhXUpAhKHFOl4

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 27, 2019, 06:16:12 AM
Supreme Court To Decide Fate Of World War I Memorial Cross On Public Land - https://www.npr.org/697708856


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on February 27, 2019, 08:13:30 AM
This is over the top.........


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gettysburg-college-trustee-quits-over-nazi-uniform-costume-photo-n973601 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gettysburg-college-trustee-quits-over-nazi-uniform-costume-photo-n973601)

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 27, 2019, 09:55:01 AM
Quote from: Beetle on February 27, 2019, 08:13:30 AMThis is over the top.........


https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gettysburg-college-trustee-quits-over-nazi-uniform-costume-photo-n973601 (https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/gettysburg-college-trustee-quits-over-nazi-uniform-costume-photo-n973601)


so what are you saying? Dressing up as sergeant Shultz for a Hogan's Heros Theme Party for a Frat party 38 years ago is a defining moment in a persons life? 

Aren't we all guilty just by watching that show?


Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on February 27, 2019, 13:38:45 PM
I'm saying it is ridiculous that this guy is stepping down.    It was a party about a TV Show.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 27, 2019, 13:44:38 PM
Quote from: Beetle on February 27, 2019, 13:38:45 PMI'm saying it is ridiculous that this guy is stepping down.    It was a party about a TV Show.



Probably just doesn’t want to deal with the media â€" perhaps he was ready to retire
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 27, 2019, 18:53:51 PM
https://fox59.com/2019/02/21/man-sentenced-to-probation-ordered-to-stay-away-from-garfield-park-after-vandalizing-confederate-monument/amp/

This idiot took a plea deal  after vandalizing A monument commemorating Confederate soldiers who died as prisoners of war.



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Video link

https://twitter.com/mass_ave/status/898952660967149568?s=21
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on February 27, 2019, 20:33:51 PM
That’s kind of how I figured most of these vandalism people looked like.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on February 28, 2019, 06:55:09 AM
Image wise, I have no idea of the prototypical vandal.  I think the Indiana dude looks like this guy with glasses. 

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I believe J missed or forgot the ‘can’t (or don’t) judge a book by its cover’ Sunday school lesson.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on February 28, 2019, 07:47:21 AM
Not judging a cover, he did it. And saying yes, looks like the stereotype that would do that. That’s the point.

And I would say he looks more like a WildMtWalleye that had a bad night sleep.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 03, 2019, 10:44:46 AM
CHAPEL HILL
In two weeks, a plan is due for the future of the toppled Silent Sam Confederate monument, but so far the UNC Board of Governors has not debated the issue openly, and a special board committee has met only once, in private.

The panel’s meeting, on Feb. 7, was not announced publicly and notice wasn’t given to media organizations â€" an apparent violation of the state’s open meetings law, according to Amanda Martin, general counsel for the N.C. Press Association.


Silent Sam’s future is ‘a very public conversation,’ UNC leader says. But it hasn’t been so far.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article226908194.html

A UNC-Chapel Hill trustee, Dwight Stone, emailed one Board of Governors member, Michael Williford, to say returning Silent Sam to campus was a very bad idea.

“Mike, putting the statue back up will make us ground zero for every nut job organization on both sides of the issue,” Stone wrote on Aug. 27. “There will be no way to guarantee safety and I promise you whatever is put back up is going to be the target of every one of these groups to destroy. Not only will it cost up [to] a million dollars a year of taxpayer money to try to protect it, but we will never be successful doing so without armed guards standing around it 24/7. What kind of visual signal does that send to every parent or potential parent of every student at UNC.”

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 12, 2019, 08:07:19 AM
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Winston Salem Mayor announced that the statue will be moved today. I remains to be seen where the statue owned by the UDC will end up. The owners of the Salem cemetery, where there are confederate graves has offered to allow the monument to be erected in proximity to those graves.

http://via.wghp.com/kz6sm


“Every record has been destroyed or falsified, every book rewritten, every picture has been repainted, every statue and street building has been renamed, every date has been altered. And the process is continuing day by day and minute by minute. History has stopped. Nothing exists except an endless present in which the Party is always right.
George Orwell, 1984
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 18, 2019, 11:29:09 AM
The American Battlefield Trust has closed on a key acquisition in northerneastern Culpeper County that spans 200 acres of fiercely fought-over Civil War battleground, including more than 5,000 feet of Rappahannock River frontage .

The Washington, D.C.-based nonprofit preservation group bought the 12-acre “Culpeper Crossing” site fronting U.S. 29 from Culpeper developer Bob Currier for $1.8 million. He had previously rezoned the land for commercial use, once envisioning it for various tourist attractions, including a butterfly conservatory and a living-history village.


https://www.roanoke.com/news/acres-along-rappahannock-river-in-culpeper-acquired-by-american-battlefield/article_376bd578-44a3-5b07-ae94-38d5e65f0182.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on March 18, 2019, 15:17:29 PM
I go right by that site every month for bidness. The canoe/kayak launch at the river crossing got shut down years ago because the land owners got fed up with the litter, noise and drunks. A state administered launch would be great. You can tour Civil war sites: Rappahannock Station, Brandy Station, Graffiti House, Catlett Station, Bristoe Station, Kelly's Ford and more in a half day.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 18, 2019, 18:51:57 PM

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This 1863 drawing by Edwin Forbes portrays The Army of the Potomac crossing the Rappahannock River on a pontoon bridge at night, near Rappahannock Station, - LIBRARY OF CONGRESS



more info: https://www.starexponent.com/news/culpeper-crossing-parcel-near-remington-headed-to-conservation-easement/article_ce1258ad-443b-530e-81be-9c4704b86070.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 21, 2019, 12:03:43 PM
I grew up in the north and many of my summers were spent in New England where, it seams that, every small town has a statue to it's Civil War veterans. Viewing those monuments led me to ask questions and learn about the cost of war both in lives and economics. I learned that colonel Joshua Chamberlain, a native from Maine, had lead a heroic and strategic defense of Little Round Top at Gettysburg.

When I arrived in North Carolina in the early 1970s the vestiges of segregation still existed. Shortly after the move, I discovered the Southern Civil War monuments located in the surrounding cities and towns. To me the spoke of surrender and defeat, and were mournful reminders of the cost of the war to the south.

Recently the monument at the old Winston Salem courthouse was removed. Personally I thought it should stand as a historical artifact, but now that it is gone, a symbolic weight has been lifted from our collective social conscience. It may be progress...


In the news today from Texas:

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QuoteA billboard east of Dallas that appears to condemn the city for its recent action regarding confederate monuments, is offending some North Texans.
The billboard sits off of HWY 175 near the City of Kemp, about 45 miles east of Dallas. It features a cartoon image of a Confederate soldier urinating on the Dallas skyline while holding a Confederate flag. In the corner of the billboard is a Confederate flag with the words “I Support Confederate Heritage” underneath it.
“It’s disgusting and I don’t like it,” said one Kemp resident about the sign.
“It’s freedom of speech and it’s as simple as that,” said a man who frequently drives through the area.
The City of Dallas removed a Robert E. Lee statue from a city park in 2017. The City Council voted earlier this year to remove a Confederate memorial at Pioneer Park in downtown.


http://www.wbap.com/2019/03/20/texans-react-to-billboard-aimed-at-city-of-dallas-confederate-heritage/







Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 21, 2019, 12:12:49 PM
In other news.... Lakeland Florida moves a Civil War monument from a park to a Veterans Cemetery.

https://www.wfla.com/news/polk-county/lakeland-removes-confederate-statue-from-munn-park/1863291412






Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 21, 2019, 12:24:48 PM
https://youtu.be/Is7ZWbumVSM


One link led to another:

https://www.theledger.com/news/20190321/florida-history-biggest-civil-war-battle-in-florida


QuoteFor four hours, 10,000 men, some 5,000 on each side, stood and shot. And stood and shot. Night found almost 1,860 Federals â€" nearly two of five â€" killed, wounded or captured. It was, by percentage of those fighting, the third deadliest Union setback in the war.
The men in blue included black soldiers, some of whom were found lying wounded after the battle by Confederate soldiers, who summarily executed them.
The southerners tallied 1,000 killed, wounded or captured. But they’d sent the Federals scurrying.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 24, 2019, 11:08:26 AM
Fairfax County quietly changes Confederate park names

Quote from: undefinedFairfax County’s Park Authority Board renamed Robert E. Lee RECenter and J.E.B. Stuart Park this winter, in little-noticed votes that removed the Confederate leaders’ names from the facilities.
According to board meeting minutes, the body voted 9-1-1 Jan. 9, with one member absent, to follow the school board’s lead to rename J.E.B. Stuart Park as Justice Park. In a 2017 vote, the school system changed the name of the neighboring high school to Justice High School after a lengthy public debate.
On Jan. 23, apparently with less controversy, the Park Authority Board voted unanimously (with two members absent) to rename the Robert E. Lee RECenter as the Lee District RECenter.


https://wtop.com/fairfax-county/2019/03/fairfax-county-quietly-changes-confederate-park-names/

Community activists call for economic boycott of Jacksonville unless city removes Confederate monuments

QuoteCommunity activists Saturday renewed their demand that Jacksonville leaders immediately take down all Confederate monuments on city-owned property, as well as strip the names of Confederate leaders off public buildings and street signs.

They also called for an economic boycott of Jacksonville unless city leaders immediately remove the statues and other symbols of the Confederacy, which the activists denounced as rooted in white supremacy and representing racism, hate and slavery.

The call came as TakeEmDownJax hosted the second international TakeEmDownEverywhere rally Saturday afternoon at Confederate Park, 956 Hubbard St., in the city’s Springfield neighborhood. An estimated 140 people â€" many from local and out-of-town social justice community action organizations â€" attended the rally that was followed by a panel discussion at the nearby International Brotherhood of Electrical Workers union hall.

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190323/community-activists-call-for-economic-boycott-of-jacksonville-unless-city-removes-confederate-monuments


United Daughters of Confederacy: Put Confederate statue back, take city attorney out of lawsuit

QuoteWinston-Salem would have to return a Confederate statue to its former spot at the corner of Liberty and Fourth streets if the court grants a motion filed by the United Daughters of the Confederacy this week in the a lawsuit against the city.

The UDC is also objecting to Winston-Salem City Attorney Angela Carmon’s involvement in the case, saying that it plans to call Carmon as a witness to what it says are “the facts and circumstances giving rise to the manufactured controversy” preceding the statue’s removal on March 12.

https://www.journalnow.com/news/local/united-daughters-of-confederacy-put-confederate-statue-back-take-city/article_2c5b53b9-597f-548e-b2ee-8c611fa38603.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on March 25, 2019, 09:16:00 AM
https://chapelboro.com/town-square/chatham-county-sets-april-debate-on-confederate-statues-future


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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 01, 2019, 09:39:30 AM
A walk through an Appalachian graveyard

QuoteWest Virginia will forever be connected to the Civil War. It was created when it became the first and only state to secede from the Confederacy on June 20, 1863, after years of neglect by the plantation-owning aristocracy in greater Virginia that was determined to continue slavery instead of paying their southern brethren a living wage. That is how some would view the conflict anyway, as others fought for the South and what they viewed as their besieged homeland.

West Virginia was also the perfect example of brother fighting brother and cousin fighting cousin during the War Between the States. The truth is that Union sympathizers and soldiers could be found in every Confederate state except for South Carolina. The Free State of Jones existed in Mississippi, the thousands-strong Hill Country Militia was located in Texas, the Mountain Feds were based in Arkansas, the Jayhawker fighters fought in Louisiana, the Winston County soldiers came out of Alabama, the Independent Rangers held court in Florida, the Pickens County brethren were from Georgia, and thousands of Eastern Tennessee fighters fought with the Union forces.

Western North Carolina was no different, and that history includes the true story of Sarah Malinda "Sam" Blalock. "Sam" Blalock was one of only two female soldiers who disguised themselves as men and fought during the Civil War. Her story is well-documented throughout history.

https://www.herald-dispatch.com/features_entertainment/a-walk-through-an-appalachian-graveyard/article_ce1cb7f3-e7c6-5601-8b15-9f3ebf6acac8.html

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 04, 2019, 10:10:13 AM
You cannot see attachments on this board.

it seams just like yesterday....

http://www.nbc12.com/2019/04/03/april-fleeing-confederate-soldiers-set-fire-richmond/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 08, 2019, 01:09:16 AM
Now they won't leave the dead along— m

You cannot see attachments on this board.


https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article228943109.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 10, 2019, 14:43:39 PM
Group calls for 'Dixie' to be taken out of Dixie Classic Fair over associations with slavery
http://via.wghp.com/DXMfr
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on April 11, 2019, 08:48:02 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on April 10, 2019, 14:43:39 PMGroup calls for 'Dixie' to be taken out of Dixie Classic Fair over associations with slavery
http://via.wghp.com/DXMfr


I saw the same thing in our local newspaper. My immediate thought was "Well I guess the Dixie Deer Classic will be next"
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 13, 2019, 09:49:17 AM
PC craziness if you ask me!


QuoteNike's latest ad campaign was online for just a few hours before historians on Twitter noticed a problem: The slogan, "The Lost Cause," was intended to promote the brand's new Trail Running collection, but it also called up a phrase with disturbing significance dating back to the years following the Civil War.

https://footwearnews.com/2019/business/retail/nike-lost-cause-ad-campaign-confederate-history-1202770716/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 19, 2019, 09:15:05 AM
PHOTOS: Wilmington's hidden Civil War history

In a 1917 StarNews article, a Confederate veteran described the defensive earthworks that surrounded Willmington during the Civil War. Many of these remnants still exist, though often now part of the area's hidden history.

Photos show Dr. Chris Fonvielle, an expert on Wilmington's Civil War history, on part of the earthworks of the Sugar Loaf defenses in a remote area of Carolina Beach State Park.


https://www.starnewsonline.com/photogallery/NC/20190418/OPINION/418009982/PH/1


Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 24, 2019, 16:25:04 PM
Lacking anything better to do, the Winston Salem City Council voted to rename the 131 year old Dixie Classic Fair!

the snowflake gubment capitulated to the whiny agitator's demands without any public imput.


https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/local/no-more-dixie-classic-fair-winston-salem-starts-process-to-change-name-of-the-citys-annual-fair-second-largest-in-nc/83-3415f41a-9606-4ed2-ad4b-f82447f7f237 

you can enter you own new fair name https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/DCFNameInput?fbclid=IwAR0f22LWNFsCp2-bjelvofX_cnOz7unTLJXLvElDbSWt__hm4qcoQ6rdTm4

Twitter Storm https://twitter.com/cityofws/status/1121076727931863040?s=21
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 26, 2019, 09:43:02 AM
QuoteArlington County is one step closer to renaming Jefferson Davis Highway.

The Arlington County Board voted 5-0 late Thursday night to formally request the name change to Richmond Highway.
Virginia's Commonwealth Transportation Board will make the final decision in the coming months. If approved, the name would be changed no later than October.


https://wamu.org/story/19/04/26/arlington-county-votes-to-remove-confederate-presidents-name-from-highway/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 26, 2019, 09:46:53 AM
Two guilty for toppling UNC campus's Silent Sam Confederate statue

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/2-guilty-for-toppling-n-carolina-campuss-confederate-statue/2019/04/25/294454ac-67a3-11e9-a698-2a8f808c9cfb_story.html?utm_term=.6bf89c3ed906
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutrus on April 27, 2019, 04:30:48 AM
https://news.yahoo.com/mississippi-flag-ordered-park-near-statue-liberty-202011774.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 27, 2019, 09:33:24 AM
Quote from: troutrus on April 27, 2019, 04:30:48 AMhttps://news.yahoo.com/mississippi-flag-ordered-park-near-statue-liberty-202011774.html

They should not exclude any state flag. The USA flag represents a history of genocide, slavery, and oppression, so ban it also  d:b   
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on April 30, 2019, 06:11:34 AM
 Virginia judge rules Charlottesville confederate statues are war monuments protected by state law
http://via.wghp.com/uhJyP


QuoteIn his nine page ruling, Moore cites the fact that both Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson are depicted in their military uniforms and on horses associated with their time in the Civil War.
"I believe that defendants have confused or conflated 1) what the statues are with 2) the intentions or motivations of some involved in erecting them, or the impact that they might have on some people and how they might make some people feel," Moore writes. "But that does not change what they are."

http://www.nbc12.com/2019/04/29/judges-rules-confederate-statues-are-war-monuments/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on May 02, 2019, 10:47:39 AM
High school may erase mural of George Washington: 'traumatizes students'


https://www.thecollegefix.com/high-school-may-erase-george-washington-murals-traumatizes-students/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on May 03, 2019, 20:06:59 PM

A New Civil War Museum Speaks Truths in the Former Capital of the Confederacy


QuoteAt the terminus of five railroads, Richmond, Virginia was more than just the nominal capital of the Confederate States of America. The city's factories supplied the Confederacy with food, munitions, and cannons. After the war, its historians, writers, and sculptors manufactured "heroes" of the Confederacy as men who treated enslaved people with paternalistic affection, fighting for just causes and states' rights.

Richmond, once the second-largest market for enslaved people and the capital of a state where more than half of all Civil War battles were fought, would, in peacetime, metamorphose into the site of a prolonged, contested engagement for the very memory of the war. The myths garlanding Confederate figures like Jefferson Davis and Robert E. Lee, who made Richmond their home for relatively brief spells of time, have long outshone the stories of generations of Richmonders who have lived in the contradictions of the city of the Lost Cause.

It's with some fitting justice, then, that a museum opening this weekend in what was once the industrial heart of Richmond sits at the center of the nation's modern-day struggles to understand the impact and devastation wrought by the Civil War.

Read more: https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/civil-war-museum-speaks-truths-former-capital-of-confederacy-180972085/#jW3sHpqBwcq7gZQo.99


Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on May 04, 2019, 13:07:14 PM
https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2019/05/03/oak-bluffs-residents-want-plaque-honoring-confederate-soldiers-removed-civil-war-statue/INGnZn2DsD9Ey09SeH7neP/story.html

QuoteOAK BLUFFS — The Union soldier looks toward the nearby ferry terminal, hands resting on the barrel of his rifle, his trim frame draped in a military coat and cape. A proud Martha's Vineyarder defending his country at a time of desperate peril.
It's a 19th-century monument like thousands of others in town squares and city parks throughout the North. Except for this: Its iron-cast base contains a 1925 plaque that honors the Confederate enemy, a surprising tribute for a summer getaway long known for its vibrant black community.

Civil War statue plaque

"The chasm is closed," the plaque reads. "In memory of the restored Union, this tablet is dedicated by Union veterans of the Civil War and patriotic citizens of Martha's Vineyard in honor of the Confederate soldiers."

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on May 05, 2019, 10:13:04 AM
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article230037779.html

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on May 23, 2019, 09:47:57 AM
Letter to the Editor about Silent Sam.

https://www.gastongazette.com/opinion/20190522/letter-dilemma-of-silent-sam
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 08, 2019, 20:17:19 PM
Lee sold

Dallas has sold the Robert E. Lee statue for $1.4 million. The 1935 bronze sculpture, which was taken down by the city was sold in an online auction that saw the most interesting action in the final hours of the sale June 6.
For days, the high bid hovered around $550,000 until the last half hour, when aliases MustangJerry and LawDude competed until LawDude won for $1,435,000.
The sculpture is valued at $950,000. The City Council wanted at least $450,000 to cover the cost of removal.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 10, 2019, 11:49:55 AM
Civil War plant guide reveals 3 plants with antibiotic properties

QuoteDuring part of the war, Confederate surgeons did not have reliable access to medicines because the Union Navy prevented the Confederacy from trading.

As infection rates rose among the wounded, the Confederate Surgeon General commissioned a guide to plant remedies.
Francis Porcher, a botanist and surgeon, compiled a book called Resources of the Southern Fields and Forests. It lists medicinal plants of the southern states, including plant remedies that Native Americans and slaves used.

QuoteThe researchers focused on three plant species that Porcher cited that grow on the Emory campus: the white oak, the tulip poplar, and a shrub called the devil's walking stick.
They gathered samples from campus specimens and tested extracts on multidrug-resistant bacteria.



https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/325422.php
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 17, 2019, 09:27:03 AM
Visiting Our Past: Cold Mountain unearths truths about Civil War

Most WNC soldiers enlisted during the Civil War because of history and propaganda relating to an invasion. 

Check out this story on citizen-times.com: https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2019/06/16/visiting-our-past-cold-mountain-unearths-truths-civil-war/1433894001/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 17, 2019, 20:45:36 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on June 17, 2019, 09:27:03 AMVisiting Our Past: Cold Mountain unearths truths about Civil War

Most WNC soldiers enlisted during the Civil War because of history and propaganda relating to an invasion. 

Check out this story on citizen-times.com: https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/2019/06/16/visiting-our-past-cold-mountain-unearths-truths-civil-war/1433894001/


Thanks!  Interesting!

"Although politically controlling slavocrats engineered the war, most soldiers enlisted because of history and propaganda relating to an invasion."

But those same soldiers allegedly

"distrusted all authority save that of conspicuous merit and natural justice."

I wonder why they fell for the propaganda?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 23, 2019, 16:48:58 PM
Op-Ed

A Civil War plaque that honors both sides should stay where it is - The Washington Post


https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/local-opinions/a-civil-war-plaque-that-honors-both-sides-should-stay-where-it-is/2019/06/21/09abc5ce-82f8-11e9-bce7-40b4105f7ca0_story.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 26, 2019, 11:14:04 AM
https://youtu.be/9Gc4QTqslN4


Ornithologists consider changing 'confederate' name of bird

https://mustreadalaska.com/ornithologists-consider-changing-confederate-name-bird/

QuoteAt their annual conference that is being held in Anchorage this week, the American Ornithological Society considered whether to change the name of the McCown's Longspur. The bird was originally named for a U.S. Army officer who joined and fought for the Confederate Army.
The name change had been proposed for consideration to the Classification Committee; the motion did not carry during the proceedings, which had several other reclassification items on the agenda. The meeting runs through June 28.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 26, 2019, 11:24:21 AM
Schools named after Robert E. Lee are renaming themselves after other famous Lees to avoid spending money on new signs

https://www.businessinsider.com/schools-names-after-confederate-leaders-rebrand-2019-6
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 28, 2019, 09:44:08 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on June 27, 2019, 21:40:50 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 27, 2019, 20:40:51 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on June 27, 2019, 20:15:06 PM11. I wonder why they fell for the propaganda?
who is they?

[/b]


Those southern Appalachian mountain boys mentioned in the link in your civil war thread.
In a 1997 interview with Donald Faulkner and William Kennedy, Foote stated that he would have fought for the Confederacy, and "what's more, I would fight for the Confederacy today if the circumstances were similar. There's a great deal of misunderstanding about the Confederacy, the Confederate flag, slavery, the whole thing. The political correctness of today is no way to look at the middle of the nineteenth century. The Confederates fought for some substantially good things. States' rights is not just a theoretical excuse for oppressing people. You have to understand that the raggedy Confederate soldier who owned no slaves and probably couldn't even read the Constitution, let alone understand it, when he was captured by Union soldiers and asked, 'what are you fighting for?' replied, 'I'm fighting because you're down here.' So I certainly would have fought to keep people from invading my native state."[/quote]


Discussion of Bossman's response would better fit in this thread, I think.  Western Piedmont and mountain folk were the center of the article, not flatlanders.  (See Bossman's earlier post for context)

If Kephart and Cash are correct:

"Our Southern Highlanders," that the mountaineers were a different breed from the poor white residents of the piedmont, with whom outsiders often lumped them.
"The western piedmont and the mountains," he continued, "were settled neither by Cavaliers nor by poor whites, but by a radically distinct and even antagonist people (who) had little or nothing to do with slavery, detested the state church, loathed tithes, and distrusted all authority save that of conspicuous merit and natural justice."

And if Rob Neufeld is accurate in his analysis:

"Western North Carolinians were largely upwardly mobile tradesmen and farmers."

"Although politically controlling slavocrats engineered the war, most soldiers enlisted because of history and propaganda relating to an invasion."

Then again, why would these "largely upwardly mobile tradesmen and farmers", "radically distinct" individuals whom "distrusted all authority" fall for some mid-19th century marketing scheme (propaganda)?
 
And why, if true, "desertion had become the rule, not the exception"? 

Did these "radically distinct" soldiers from the mountains and the rest of Foote's  "raggedy Confederate soldier(s) who owned no slaves and probably couldn't even read the Constitution, let alone understand it" suddenly realize they had been duped?

Interesting to contemplate and it has nothing to do with "political correctness of today". 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 28, 2019, 11:37:06 AM
Southerners were going to whoop the Yankees in a month, 1 southerner was worth 10 Yankees...

Then the walls came tumbling down and casualties took their toll...



https://youtu.be/Q9J8P6WfS7w

I've not watched this before but am listening now...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TtbFCwFHk9o
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 05, 2019, 12:06:21 PM
Police seek ID of woman accused of vandalizing two downtown Wilmington Confederate statues

https://www.wbtv.com/2019/07/04/two-downtown-wilmington-confederate-statues-vandalized-early-thursday-morning/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 06, 2019, 11:19:10 AM
Country music group Confederate Railroad booted from state fair lineup — because of the name Confederate Railroad

https://www.theblaze.com/news/country-music-group-confederate-railroad-booted-from-state-fair-lineup--because-of-the-name-confederate-railroad

Geeez I guess the C word is the new N word!

https://youtu.be/i2kWq8aCT1o
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 09, 2019, 11:23:52 AM
N Carolina worker ordered Confederate items for July

wristbands orderd for 4th of July for county public pool

QuoteDeputy county manager Damon Sanders-Pratt says the employee who ordered the wristbands to mark the holiday mistakenly thought they were patriotic, and didn't understand what the "Stars and Bars" pattern symbolizes.
my bold...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/n-carolina-worker-ordered-confederate-items-for-july-4th/2019/07/09/87c7e200-a23b-11e9-a767-d7ab84aef3e9_story.html?utm_term=.0a1fa1fe0a43
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 17, 2019, 09:21:22 AM
Virginia Agrees to Remove Confederate Ghosts (https://www.theonion.com/virginia-agrees-to-remove-confederate-ghosts-from-state-1836428233)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 19, 2019, 13:59:04 PM
National Geographic to 'Drain the Ocean' on Confederate submarine Hunley recovery


The Confederate submarine H.L. Hunley sat buried on the sea floor for more than a century. Now a TV show is going to peel away 18 feet of ocean to show you where it was.
National Geographic Television's "Drain the Oceans" shipwreck and treasure series will feature the Charleston Civil War artifact on Monday's broadcast.
Using computer-generated imagery, the show displays "what the oceans' floors would look like if they could be seen," according to the series website.

The imagery literally drains the water away in front of viewers' eyes. In this case it means exposing the wrecked submarine on the sea bed.

https://www.postandcourier.com/news/national-geographic-to-drain-the-ocean-on-confederate-submarine-hunley/article_9333ac3e-a964-11e9-915e-cba21c0416ca.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 24, 2019, 12:42:40 PM
Rise and fall: The 110 year history of UNC's Confederate monument, Silent Sam


https://www.dailytarheel.com/article/2019/07/silent-sam-print
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutrus on July 25, 2019, 06:09:22 AM
https://news.yahoo.com/charlottesville-statue-robert-e-lee-151247554.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 26, 2019, 08:35:58 AM
https://www.msn.com/en-us/music/news/country-band-confederate-railroad-nixed-from-another-fair/ar-AAER42g?ocid=spartandhp
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 20, 2019, 07:26:58 AM
Chatham's Confederate statue in Pittsboro to come down, board decides at rowdy meeting
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/chatham-county/article234143642.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 20, 2019, 08:57:31 AM
Winston-Salem City Council votes to change name of Dixie Classic Fair
http://via.wghp.com/MDbLP


Dixie is racist  b';
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 20, 2019, 08:58:18 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 20, 2019, 07:26:58 AMChatham's Confederate statue in Pittsboro to come down, board decides at rowdy meeting
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/chatham-county/article234143642.html


<Supporters of the Confederate monument shouted "You're a traitor!" and "Traitors to Chatham County!" as the board members spoke.>

This is rich!  Am I the only one that sees the hypocrisy?

Interesting reading on treason. Opinions differ.

https://www.futurity.org/civil-war-union-rebels-treason-725752/

http://www.chicagonow.com/recesses-mind/2017/09/lets-face-facts-the-confederates-were-traitors/

https://www.abbevilleinstitute.org/blog/confederate-soldiers-were-not-traitors/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on August 20, 2019, 10:21:28 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 20, 2019, 08:57:31 AMWinston-Salem City Council votes to change name of Dixie Classic Fair
http://via.wghp.com/MDbLP


Dixie is racist  b';

Meh.   Time to move on.   
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on August 20, 2019, 12:17:31 PM
Quote from: Beetle on August 20, 2019, 10:21:28 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 20, 2019, 08:57:31 AMWinston-Salem City Council votes to change name of Dixie Classic Fair
http://via.wghp.com/MDbLP


Dixie is racist  b';

Meh.   Time to move on.   


Don't have a problem with the name change, object to the $40-60k study for a name selection and the million for rebranding 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on August 20, 2019, 20:20:25 PM
There is a difference between fighting racist tendencies and white-shaming.  White shaming by the moral superior [sarc button on] seems to be a trendy activity at the moment. White shaming is precisely why Trump is the prez, but many are too retarded to figure this out. 

I'm all for removing the historic statue in Pittsboro, and replacing it with sculpture of a multi racial, transgender shim, being mounted by a transgender man-she.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 20, 2019, 20:32:35 PM
Quote from: Onslow on August 20, 2019, 20:20:25 PMThere is a difference between fighting racist tendencies and white-shaming.  White shaming by moral superior [sarc button on] seems to be trendy posture at the moment. White shaming is precisely why Trump is the prez, but many are too retarded to figure this out. 

I'm all for removing the historic statues, and replacing it with sculpture of a multi racial, transgender shim, being mounted by a transgender man-she.


White shaming, slut shaming, body shaming, fat shaming --- all are futile if poised, comfortable, sanguine, and self-aware.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on August 20, 2019, 20:57:44 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 20, 2019, 20:32:35 PM
Quote from: Onslow on August 20, 2019, 20:20:25 PMThere is a difference between fighting racist tendencies and white-shaming.  White shaming by moral superior [sarc button on] seems to be trendy posture at the moment. White shaming is precisely why Trump is the prez, but many are too retarded to figure this out. 

I'm all for removing the historic statues, and replacing it with sculpture of a multi racial, transgender shim, being mounted by a transgender man-she.


White shaming, slut shaming, body shaming, fat shaming --- all are futile if poised, comfortable, sanguine, and self-aware.

Very true, but it's challenging to be comfortable, sanguine, and self aware in the midst of an emerging civil war.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on August 20, 2019, 21:52:17 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on August 20, 2019, 07:26:58 AMChatham's Confederate statue in Pittsboro to come down, board decides at rowdy meeting
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/counties/chatham-county/article234143642.html


Reading the article and seeing that we are all up in arms because the Civil War was an unjust war leads me to conclude one day soon we will bulldozer down the Vietnam Wall because according to many it was an unjust war. My little hometown in New England has a pillar of granite with my name on it along with all the other unjust warriors during that war, three of whom have an * beside their names because they came home in a bodybag - 30 years (maybe less) from now that will likely be ripped out.

We are going down the tube folks.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on August 21, 2019, 06:26:43 AM
Quote from: Al on August 20, 2019, 21:52:17 PMWe are going down the tube folks.

Nay, there is no emerging civil war and we're not going down the tubes.  We're merely suffering one more weak moment in human evolution.  We've been hating, killing, enslaving, dominating from the moment we emerged from the ooze.  Most tribalism sucks.
 
My Nostradamus vision tells me we'll destroy our home first.  Al, no worries; we'll not be around to experience our biggest FU. 

Many forms of 'shaming' will likely serve no one.  Now, human shaming may hold some worth.  Plus, early in life I shamed myself clean from the superstitious.  Now, I'm working on personal dogmatic ignorance shaming – tough road.     
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Beetle on August 22, 2019, 08:31:21 AM
Sticks and stones.....
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on October 21, 2019, 12:54:01 PM
It's February 24th, 1864, General Johnston is using soldiers from the Kentucky Orphan Brigade as a human telegraph line. This line stretched from the top of the ridge to the valley below giving them full view of the enemy. These men had to rest at their posts. An Englishman, by the name of George Disney rose early this morning and may have attempted to yawn when a bullet passed through his head. His fellow soldiers saw him lay back down and not aware he was killed til about an hour later when they tried to arouse him from his sleep. George Disney was a resident of Owensboro Kentucky and he enlisted in the First Kentucky Infantry. He served the first year in Virginia until the unit was disbanded. Later he became a member of the Fourth Kentucky Infantry that was part of the Orphan Brigade. He served in Vicksburg, Baton Rouge, Stone River, Jackson, Chickamauga and Mission Ridge. He was killed between Dalton and Tunnel Hill to become a casualty at Rocky Face and was buried where he fell.
Years go by and a lone grave located some three miles above Dalton at one of the highest points of Rocky Face, George Disney rests peacefully. He is mentioned in the Dalton Citizen on March 13, 1873. A poplar head board bears his name and unit. It is plainly marked. The entrenchments are well preserved and visible to any passerby. In March of 1912 a local Dalton Troop of Boy Scouts place an order for a marble head stone. It was noted the grave occupies a picturesque position on the south spur of the gap. The scout leader W.M Sapp procured horses and about a dozen scouts headed to the site. The original wooden marker said he was in the 10th Kentucky and the new marble marker corrected that.
On May 16, 1912 the Dalton Citizen reported the tribute ceremony for the new marker. By Horseback Scoutmaster Sapp and 25 Boy Scouts went to the site accompanied by Miss Amanda Ware of Kentucky as a state sponsor and Miss Marie Hamilton and Miss Hattie Springfield. Also in attendance was Jay Wood, Henry Quinn, Sim Hassler and William Glaze. The grave was hollowed out and the cavity was filled with concrete. The marker was placed in and the concrete allowed to harden. The ceremony began with an invocation, the song, "America", a short talk by Scout Master Sapp, the song, "Columbia:, a bugle call with "Taps" and the ceremony ended. The article goes on to say this memorial will stand for all time. The marker itself was also monogramed with D.B.S for the Dalton Boy Scouts. And said the following.
In memory of
George Disney
Company "K," 4th Kentucky Infantry
Killed February 24, 1864
Erected by
Dalton Boy Scouts
1912
In 1954 the Georgia State Historical Commission installs a marker on Hwy 41 at Mill Creek Gap stating; "GEORGE DISNEY'S GRAVE, High up on Rocky Face, S. of gap, is the lone grave of English-born George Disney, Co. K., 4th Ky. Inft., Lewis' "Orphan Brigade", Bate's div., Hindman's Corps [CSA]. The 4th Ky. was deployed to form a living telegraph line from base to summit of the ridge at the point where the view commanded Federal movements in open valley N.W. Disney, atop the ridge, was killed by a random bullet, Feb. 25, 1864; he was buried where he fell. Dalton Boy Scouts, on a hike, found the grave, & directed by Scout Master Wm. M. Sapp, Sr., replaced the inscribed heart-pine board with a marble marker, May 13, 1912."  In the late 1990s, the George Disney Trail is erected. This steep trail is the most challenging trail in northwest Georgia, and the most challenging short trail in the state.
We fast forward to today. Recently Mike Aaron with the McDaniel Curtis Camp reported a friend Frank Hanson was hiking on the Disney Trail last Saturday October 12 and found the tombstone had been demolished. He reported his findings to Tony Pilgrim who in turn shared with the Georgia Monument Guards. Randy Vaughn and B J Dawson travelled to the scene on October 17 to survey the damage despite the difficult and arduous hike. Randy Vaughn reports Lt. A. Lowery said the Whitfield County Public Works Department are the ones that maintain the trail. B. J. Dawson returned to the site and recovered the remains of Disney's marker only to find bits and pieces tossed about. He could not find all of the remains so another marker will have to be installed. Remember for all involved this is a 2.4 mile long trail straight up. The remaining pieces could not be found.
Through teamwork and determination the marker will be replaced.  Compatriot Steve Hall is looking to order a granite marker from the VA. The Dalton Civil War Round table and Whitfield County are aware. Wendell Bruce, First Brigade Commander, has been made aware. Searching for alternate methods to get to the site will be needed, as the hike there is bad enough without the weight of a 230 pound marker and materials to set the stone. The task will be daunting. We will need all the help we can get.  The vandals will stop at nothing to keep destroying things. We need to replace everything they destroy.  They must leave our treasured veterans alone.

Respectfully Submitted
Barry Colbaugh

References
North Georgia Citizen March 13, 1873
North Georgia Citizen January 25, 1900
North Georgia Citizen May 16, 1912
North Georgia Citizen May 07, 1912
North Georgia Citizen April 01, 1915

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on October 22, 2019, 19:45:53 PM
So it's now official that the Dixie classic fair will be renamed The Carolina Classic Fair ( not to be confused with Wendy's Carolina Classic Burger.

When WFDD.ORG, our NPR affiliate, posted the official change I left a comment, "You can take Dixie out of the fair, but you can't take Carolina out of Dixie!"

 Apparently they didn't like it and removed my post  n!n 
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Sedition and Pockets on November 04, 2019, 19:08:44 PM
(https://i.postimg.cc/L4t77dz5/UDCcrap.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 15, 2019, 19:15:35 PM
Almost 200 confederate flags stolen from cemetery on Veterans Day

https://connectingvets.radio.com/articles/ap-news/confederate-flags-stolen-woodbine-cemetery
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 20, 2019, 08:15:19 AM
https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/local/pittsboro-confederate-statue-removal-chatham-county-nc/83-2528bddc-9bef-4f32-9a0b-9d22ab7d4b62

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 27, 2019, 16:12:29 PM
So, the university will use non-university funds to set up a $2.5M trust fund for the care and preservation of the Sons of Confederate Veterans' Silent Sam statue, which will likely be a hate shrine, in a county without a UNC school in it. Is this fund funded with private donations and is that list public record? Hmm.

Under the terms of the consent judgment, the Court approved resolution of the case on the following terms:
• SCV owns all rights, title, and interests in the monument;
• The University will turn over possession of the monument to SCV;
• SCV will forever maintain possession of the monument outside any of the fourteen counties currently containing a UNC System constituent institution;
• Using non-state funds, the University will fund a charitable trust to be held independently by a non-party trustee in the amount of $2,500,000, the proceeds of which may only be used for certain limited expenses related to the care and preservation of the monument, including potentially a facility to house and display the monument; and
• This resolution complies with existing North Carolina law, including the monuments law as provided in Chapter 100 of the North Carolina General Statutes.


https://amp.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/education/article237809039.html
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 30, 2019, 18:00:32 PM
Local reporter in the triad gets published in the Post!

N.C. ban on removal of Confederate monuments is challenged as local councils continue to bring down statues
Local governments are using a "loophole" to bypass the 2015 state law that limits monument removals on public property.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/nc-ban-on-removal-of-confederate-monuments-is-challenged-as-local-councils-continue-to-bring-down-statues/2019/11/29/ab45fe0a-1050-11ea-9cd7-a1becbc82f5e_story.html

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on November 30, 2019, 18:23:32 PM
GARNER, N.C. — A North Carolina town has canceled its annual Christmas parade over possible issues with a float sponsored by the Sons of Confederate Veterans.

Garner spokesman Rick Mercier tells The News & Observer that online chatter about the float led officials to conclude the event could be targeted for disruption.


http://www.startribune.com/town-parade-canceled-over-possible-confederate-float-issues/565606682/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 01, 2019, 13:43:09 PM
Opinion piece on the Silent Sam statue being given to the Sons Of Confederates

https://www.fayobserver.com/opinion/20191130/our-view-unc-system-deal-on-confederate-statue-silent-sam-raises-troubling-questions
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 01, 2019, 13:50:05 PM
A Confederate statue in Charlottesville, Virginia, that became a rallying point for white nationalists has been vandalized again, this time with graffiti saying, "Impeach Trump."

News outlets report that the statue of Confederate General Robert E. Lee was also spray-painted Thursday night with "This is Racist."


https://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/charlottesville-confederate-statue-vandalized-67408309
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 03, 2019, 15:06:10 PM
so last week the Robert E. Lee statue in Charlottesville was marked with graffiti, "Impeach Trump" and "This is Racist". Parks and rec are having some trouble removing it.

QuoteLast week's graffiti on the statue of Robert E. Lee is not coming off easily.
Staff with the Departments of Parks and Recreation was at Market Street Park Monday, December 2, working to scrub the paint off the pedestal for the Confederate monument.

check this link for a video news report...

https://www.nbc29.com/2019/12/02/charlottesville-crews-working-remove-graffiti-confederate-statues/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 05, 2019, 13:21:00 PM
Wow, Raleigh cancels Christmas Parade because there is a potential protest for and against the confederate statues at the capitol!


https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/article238055014.html

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on December 08, 2019, 17:06:25 PM
Whatever p;-
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on December 30, 2019, 20:58:58 PM
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http://bit.ly/2SABmJk

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 12, 2020, 12:59:43 PM
Judge overturns Silent Sam settlement between UNC, Sons of Confederate Veterans

https://abc11.com/politics/judge-overturns-silent-sam-deal-between-unc-confederate-group/5924531/


Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Sedition and Pockets on February 13, 2020, 07:47:37 AM
The Silent Sam extortion scam that UNC fell for and abetted was and is an absolute disgrace.  Tear it down and scrap it.  There is no value in preserving the legacy of racist intimidation in the public square.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 19, 2020, 11:28:02 AM
QuoteThe UNC System and its Board of Governors asked an Orange County judge Monday to help them get the Silent Sam Confederate statue back and then advise them what to do with it.

Superior Court Judge Allen Baddour dismissed the lawsuit and voided the settlement between the UNC System and the North Carolina Sons of Confederate Veterans (SCV) that gave the SCV ownership of the statue and access to $2.5 million to preserve and display it.
 
Baddour, who had approved the deal in November, determined the SCV lacked the legal standing to sue in the first place, but didn't explain his reasoning. At a hearing earlier this month, he asked if the UNC System wanted direction about the fate of the monument in his written order dismissing the case.

Read more here: https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article240394551.html#storylink=cpy


Now where will the statue end up? Back on Campus? Be careful what you ask for!  <-;:
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on February 20, 2020, 11:11:30 AM
Civil War Battle Rages On!

https://www.thecollegefix.com/unc-chancellor-vows-that-confederate-statue-will-not-return-to-school/

QuoteThat settlement was voided earlier this month, with the presiding judge determining that the Confederate group never actually had any ownership claims to the statue and thus could not legally sue for it. Control of the statue then apparently returned to the university. But last week, Guskiewicz assured faculty that he would work to prevent the memorial to campus, The Daily Tar Heel reports:

Chancellor Kevin Guskiewicz said he will do whatever possible to ensure that Silent Sam does not return to UNC's campus at a Faculty Council meeting on Friday.

"It doesn't belong on our campus," he said. "And I will continue to work with our Board of Trustees, our system office and Board of Governors on this."


The Raleigh News and Observer reported yesterday that the school, through its attorney, has asked the presiding judge to issue a clarifying order stipulating that the statue, as well as the full amount of the trust, be returned to university control, and that the school be given "ultimate disposition" over the statue.

The Confederate group, meanwhile, is working on "getting the statue back to the university," the group's lawyer said.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 03, 2020, 19:00:28 PM
Ho-Lee fuck

Richmond's statue of lee will come down!

https://www.wtkr.com/news/governor-northam-to-announce-removal-of-lee-statue
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on June 03, 2020, 19:39:10 PM
Monument Ave. may need to be renamed before we are done. J.E.B Stuart, Jeff Davis, Stonewall Jackson, Matthew Fontaine Maury are next in line. Arthur Ashe, added in '96, will obviously survive.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 04, 2020, 09:50:06 AM
Quote from: Dougfish on June 03, 2020, 19:39:10 PMMonument Ave. may need to be renamed before we are done. J.E.B Stuart, Jeff Davis, Stonewall Jackson, Matthew Fontaine Maury are next in line. Arthur Ashe, added in '96, will obviously survive.


No need to rename, just replace with statues of Lincoln, Grant, Newt Knight, Thaddeus Stevens, Harriet Tubman, etc. 

As a co-op student at VT back in the late 70s and early 80s I lived at the corner of Monument and Blvd. in a boarding house with a handful of other Hokies.  Hell fire, I never noticed the monuments, but I was mostly intoxicated, stoned, and/or chasing tail.  Take a pup from the Virginia mountains, put him in the Richmond fan, and you get blissful bedlam!   
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Big J on June 04, 2020, 10:15:04 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 04, 2020, 09:50:06 AM
Quote from: Dougfish on June 03, 2020, 19:39:10 PMMonument Ave. may need to be renamed before we are done. J.E.B Stuart, Jeff Davis, Stonewall Jackson, Matthew Fontaine Maury are next in line. Arthur Ashe, added in '96, will obviously survive.


No need to rename, just replace with statues of Lincoln, Grant, Newt Knight, Thaddeus Stevens, Harriet Tubman, etc. 

As a co-op student at VT back in the late 70s and early 80s I lived at the corner of Monument and Blvd. in a boarding house with a handful of other Hokies.  Hell fire, I never noticed the monuments, but I was mostly intoxicated, stoned, and/or chasing tail.  Take a pup from the Virginia mountains, put him in the Richmond fan, and you get blissful bedlam!   


Then put that old dog back into the mountains of Virginia and he takes up golf.  Oh the irony of life.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on June 05, 2020, 16:37:17 PM
The Texas Rangers monuments are now coming down
 https://dfw.cbslocal.com/2020/06/04/texas-ranger-statue-removed-dallas-love-field/

IMHO history is history both good and bad.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 05, 2020, 21:08:13 PM
https://www.instagram.com/p/CBCOQH0loQ5/?igshid=oqelt7d5a7pc
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Sedition and Pockets on June 07, 2020, 22:39:52 PM
That plinth would look good with a statue of Harry Haywood atop it.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Sedition and Pockets on June 08, 2020, 11:53:43 AM
Reel it in Kenny, and try a new spot.  This hole is burnt.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutrus on June 08, 2020, 13:29:28 PM


https://www.pbs.org/newshour/nation/robert-e-lee-opposed-confederate-monuments
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 09, 2020, 08:22:19 AM
Where are some of the posts from yesterday (8 June 2020)?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on June 09, 2020, 12:45:07 PM
I appears there is traction to rename our military bases - Secy of Army is on board and now we have the retired generals giving him cover

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/06/take-confederate-names-off-our-army-bases/612832/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: wildmttwalleye on June 11, 2020, 11:41:02 AM
Muh monuments!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on June 14, 2020, 17:44:16 PM
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-53004638

"Following police information, the 12-year-old statue of Robert Baden-Powell is to be "temporarily" removed to protect it, Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole (BCP) Council said.

The statue will have 24-hour security protection until it can be removed.

Protesters gathered at the quayside to show support for the statue.
"

Lord Baden-Powell started the World Scouting Movement. 

The Scout uniform is a symbol of equality, but yet here we are.   

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 15, 2020, 08:16:00 AM
Quote from: Onslow on June 14, 2020, 17:44:16 PMThe Scout uniform is a symbol of equality, but yet here we are. 



Debatable?  Yes. No. Maybe.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/christopher-hitchens-on-the-mildly-fascist-founder-of-the-boy-scouts/272683/
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on June 15, 2020, 09:30:53 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 15, 2020, 08:16:00 AM
Quote from: Onslow on June 14, 2020, 17:44:16 PMThe Scout uniform is a symbol of equality, but yet here we are. 



Debatable?  Yes. No. Maybe.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/christopher-hitchens-on-the-mildly-fascist-founder-of-the-boy-scouts/272683/

I wasn't around in 1933, and do not have a firm handle on the behavior of Mussolini or Hitler during that time. I have spoken to grandchildren of those who were early Hitler supporters. Hitler was regarded by some as the savior of Germany in the during the brutal post WWI era, and he promised a pig for every family. Times were very tough.  It seems odd that a man of Imperial Great Britain would be empathetic to anyone in  the former Central Powers, or emerging Axis. I doubt anyone knew in 1933 how the story would end.


This article is just another purity test piece. There is no purity on this earth, unless one believes in the supernatural. One cannot have it both ways.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on June 15, 2020, 09:58:24 AM
Not so common common sense.

Thou shalt not bear false witness" forbids: "1. Speaking falsely in any matter, lying, equivocating, and any way devising and designing to deceive our neighbor. ... Speaking unjustly against our neighbor, to the prejudice of his reputation; and (which involves the guilty of both).
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on June 15, 2020, 11:08:09 AM
By all means, let's echo the actions of the Taliban when they dynamited the Buddha statues, and obliterate any reminder of history that we don't agree with. Let's judge people in the past by today's standards, and whitewash history so that it doesn't exist, or maybe re-write it into a more politically correct version so that no one is offended or triggered. Then, everything will be perfect and utopian. We certainly wouldn't want to learn from history, or acknowledge that all of our ancestors a couple hundred years ago weren't 2020 "woke."
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 15, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 15, 2020, 11:08:09 AMBy all means, let's echo the actions of the Taliban when they dynamited the Buddha statues, and obliterate any reminder of history that we don't agree with. Let's judge people in the past by today's standards, and whitewash history so that it doesn't exist, or maybe re-write it into a more politically correct version so that no one is offended or triggered. Then, everything will be perfect and utopian. We certainly wouldn't want to learn from history, or acknowledge that all of our ancestors a couple hundred years ago weren't 2020 "woke."

I agree; there is little gained in obliterating "any reminder of history that we don't agree with".  But there is also no rational reason to honor, revere those historic personalities with questionable decency, even under today's standards.  Perhaps "today's standards" are healthier, better, improved.  I happen to believe in the evolution of morality.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on June 16, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 15, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 15, 2020, 11:08:09 AMBy all means, let's echo the actions of the Taliban when they dynamited the Buddha statues, and obliterate any reminder of history that we don't agree with. Let's judge people in the past by today's standards, and whitewash history so that it doesn't exist, or maybe re-write it into a more politically correct version so that no one is offended or triggered. Then, everything will be perfect and utopian. We certainly wouldn't want to learn from history, or acknowledge that all of our ancestors a couple hundred years ago weren't 2020 "woke."

I agree; there is little gained in obliterating "any reminder of history that we don't agree with".  But there is also no rational reason to honor, revere those historic personalities with questionable decency, even under today's standards.  Perhaps "today's standards" are healthier, better, improved.  I happen to believe in the evolution of morality.
Lincoln had the same standards, by and large, as did most folks of the day. If you read some of his statements concerning the black race, it would curl your hair. Yet, no one wants to take down his monument.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: wildmttwalleye on June 16, 2020, 12:06:15 PM
My Lord look at the snowflakes!
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 16, 2020, 13:46:55 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 16, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 15, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 15, 2020, 11:08:09 AMBy all means, let's echo the actions of the Taliban when they dynamited the Buddha statues, and obliterate any reminder of history that we don't agree with. Let's judge people in the past by today's standards, and whitewash history so that it doesn't exist, or maybe re-write it into a more politically correct version so that no one is offended or triggered. Then, everything will be perfect and utopian. We certainly wouldn't want to learn from history, or acknowledge that all of our ancestors a couple hundred years ago weren't 2020 "woke."

I agree; there is little gained in obliterating "any reminder of history that we don't agree with".  But there is also no rational reason to honor, revere those historic personalities with questionable decency, even under today's standards.  Perhaps "today's standards" are healthier, better, improved.  I happen to believe in the evolution of morality.
Lincoln had the same standards, by and large, as did most folks of the day. If you read some of his statements concerning the black race, it would curl your hair. Yet, no one wants to take down his monument.

Calls grow to remove statue of Lincoln standing over freed black man in Boston

>>>The Emancipation Memorial statue that has stood in Park Square for more than 100 years shows President Lincoln with one hand raised standing above a half-clothed freed slave who is kneeling at Lincoln's feet with broken chains on his wrists.


https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/502948-calls-grow-to-remove-statue-of-lincoln-standing-over-freed
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 17, 2020, 07:48:28 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 16, 2020, 11:07:13 AMLincoln had the same standards, by and large, as did most folks of the day. If you read some of his statements concerning the black race, it would curl your hair. Yet, no one wants to take down his monument.


Yes, Lincoln voiced some disturbing statements, particularly early in his career (~1858).  But I'll argue he evolved over the next ~7 years.  I can't say the same for some others, and I'm not sure as a nation we've completely healed after 150+ years.  Plus, he was not a traitor to the U.S.A. 

Maybe it is an inherent problem with symbols/statues/monuments.  Perhaps we need to do a more thorough job of vetting, selecting, and honoring our heroes.  I only have 3 champions or heroes in my life.  My immediate family for their malleability to endure my BS, my late father for his compassion and optimism, and nature for its indifference.  Certainly, there are others that I admire and even outwardly label as heroes, but that is just me, drifting from the truth and what I truly believe.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Dougfish on June 17, 2020, 14:41:57 PM
We need more statues of Pan. And other lighthearted works of art.

(https://i.imgur.com/LMTqhaTl.jpg)
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on June 17, 2020, 15:53:08 PM
Quote from: Dougfish on June 17, 2020, 14:41:57 PMWe need more statues of Pan. And other lighthearted works of art.

(https://i.imgur.com/LMTqhaTl.jpg)

I see your Pan and Raise you

(https://i.pinimg.com/564x/4a/d5/ab/4ad5ab87c95234ce0911ba5bd6c1edfb.jpg)

Replace General Lee on Monument Ave with this one...
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: troutrus on June 17, 2020, 16:03:14 PM
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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Phil on June 17, 2020, 16:16:41 PM
I like THAT one, trourus.  :cheers
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 18, 2020, 07:27:12 AM
I think it is currently unavailable through Amazon, but Chauncy seems like a fitting statuette for neighborhood yards and gardens all over America.

https://www.amazon.com/chauncey-confused-garden-monkey-statue/dp/b0093win2s
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2020, 21:08:58 PM
Move them to The cemeteries they said!



Confederate monument at Green Hills Cemetery pulled down, removed

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https://myfox8.com/news/confederate-monument-at-green-hills-cemetery-pulled-down-removed/?anvplayer-autoplay=0

A monument that marks the mass grave of about 300 unknown Confederate soldiers in Green Hill Cemetery in Greensboro was toppled over the Fourth of July weekend.

https://triad-city-beat.com/confederate-monument-toppled-green-hill-cemetery/

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Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Al on July 07, 2020, 21:46:29 PM
Only a matter of time before some good ole boy's toss a chain around one of many MLK statues, puts their Big Bertha truck in 4WD and floors it.  All hell will break loose then.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on July 08, 2020, 04:38:56 AM
Quote from: Al on July 07, 2020, 21:46:29 PMOnly a matter of time before some good ole boy's toss a chain around one of many MLK statues, puts their Big Bertha truck in 4WD and floors it.  All hell will break loose then.



Most are to strung out on drugs to function.

America was thrown away like a piece of cheap Chinese merchandise. It longer exists. Things will only get much worse.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2020, 07:20:53 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2020, 21:08:58 PMConfederate monument at Green Hills Cemetery pulled down, removed



Analyzing the chronology is everything.

From the article:
<My guess is that if this statue goes up in 1888, it's a lot more about trying to establish white supremacy than mourning Confederate soldiers," Ringel said. "1888 makes it more problematic than 1865.">
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2020, 07:27:50 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2020, 07:20:53 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2020, 21:08:58 PMConfederate monument at Green Hills Cemetery pulled down, removed



Analyzing the chronology is everything.

From the article:
<My guess is that if this statue goes up in 1888, it's a lot more about trying to establish white supremacy than mourning Confederate soldiers," Ringel said. "1888 makes it more problematic than 1865.">

Guessing?? How about we guess that there wasn't any money available after the war to build statues. How about we guess that by 1888 cival war veterans were dying off and the DOC was able to raise enough money by that time to have statues build..  mind you I'm only guessing...
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2020, 07:50:46 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2020, 07:27:50 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2020, 07:20:53 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2020, 21:08:58 PMConfederate monument at Green Hills Cemetery pulled down, removed



Analyzing the chronology is everything.

From the article:
<My guess is that if this statue goes up in 1888, it's a lot more about trying to establish white supremacy than mourning Confederate soldiers," Ringel said. "1888 makes it more problematic than 1865.">

Guessing?? How about we guess that there wasn't any money available after the war to build statues. How about we guess that by 1888 cival war veterans were dying off and the DOC was able to raise enough money by that time to have statues build..  mind you I'm only guessing...

I'm guessing that around 1888 the powers that be had a brief comatose episode and were completely oblivious they were about to pay tribute to traitors, or perhaps they had complete control of their faculties and decided to be the first and only entity to honor defectors and traitors.  I'm only guessing.
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Yallerhammer on July 08, 2020, 09:33:39 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2020, 07:50:46 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 08, 2020, 07:27:50 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2020, 07:20:53 AM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on July 07, 2020, 21:08:58 PMConfederate monument at Green Hills Cemetery pulled down, removed



Analyzing the chronology is everything.

From the article:
<My guess is that if this statue goes up in 1888, it's a lot more about trying to establish white supremacy than mourning Confederate soldiers," Ringel said. "1888 makes it more problematic than 1865.">

Guessing?? How about we guess that there wasn't any money available after the war to build statues. How about we guess that by 1888 cival war veterans were dying off and the DOC was able to raise enough money by that time to have statues build..  mind you I'm only guessing...

I'm guessing that around 1888 the powers that be had a brief comatose episode and were completely oblivious they were about to pay tribute to traitors, or perhaps they had complete control of their faculties and decided to be the first and only entity to honor defectors and traitors.  I'm only guessing.

You mean like Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hancock, and all those other traitors and defectors from the British Crown?

One of my great x grandpas, Captain Robert Messer, was hung for treason in Hillsborough in 1771 by the royal governor of NC for being one of the leaders of the Regulator Rebellion at the Battle of Alamance. Maybe they ought to take down the monument there with his name on it, too?
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2020, 09:55:20 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 08, 2020, 09:33:39 AMYou mean like Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hancock, and all those other traitors and defectors from the British Crown?

Yes. 

And as I said on 17 June.

<Maybe it is an inherent problem with symbols/statues/monuments.  Perhaps we need to do a more thorough job of vetting, selecting, and honoring our heroes.  I only have 3 champions or heroes in my life.>
Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Onslow on July 08, 2020, 20:36:56 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 08, 2020, 09:55:20 AM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 08, 2020, 09:33:39 AMYou mean like Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Hancock, and all those other traitors and defectors from the British Crown?

Yes. 

And as I said on 17 June.

<Maybe it is an inherent problem with symbols/statues/monuments.  Perhaps we need to do a more thorough job of vetting, selecting, and honoring our heroes.  I only have 3 champions or heroes in my life.>

Perhaps there should be no statues, period.  The bronze age Hebrews apparently had some issues with such matters.

Title: Re: Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on July 09, 2020, 07:28:06 AM
Rafe did not want or need a statue.  We could learn from Mr. Hollister. 

 http://youtu.be/dCtcJrxVvTw