Pretentious Snobby Bastard Fly Fishing!

Fly Fishing BS => The Gravel Bar => Topic started by: trout-r-us on January 21, 2022, 09:35:22 AM

Title: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: trout-r-us on January 21, 2022, 09:35:22 AM
Interesting how the very same groups that created labels like "cancel culture" and "snowflakes" are now playing those rolls.
If these folks get what they want, history will be history.
When I first read 1984, I envisioned someplace like Russia; not Florida.🤔
 
"A Florida state Senate committee on Thursday advanced a bill that would prohibit making white people feel "discomfort" when taught or trained about past discrimination in public schools and private businesses.
The bill, S.B. 148, would prevent school educators from teaching subjects that could make students feel responsible for historical wrongs based on their race, sex or national origin."
https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/590554-bill-to-ban-lessons-making-white-students-feel-discomfort-advances-in
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 21, 2022, 10:54:51 AM
"An individual, by virtue of his or her race or sex, does not bear responsibility for actions committed in the past by other members of the same race or sex," the legislation by Sen. Manny Diaz (R) reads. "An individual should not be made to feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, or any other form of psychological distress on account of his or her race."

This is utterly fucking bullshit!  We should feel discomfort, guilt, anguish, etc. as a human race!  Without these discomforts, aches and pains, from our past, where will the incentives and motivations to do better come from?
 
I'm not sure discomfort for our youth (white, black, brown, red, yellow, male or female or somewhere in-between, rich, poor, middle class) when exposed to history is even a likelihood.  Nor do I feel presenting only our historical positives and laudatory accomplishments to our youth will send them into some psychological euphoria.  Exposing adults to truth does not seem to work, so why would it work with our adolescents?

Historical truth (bad and good) = potential for growth and survival

"A generation which ignores history has no past – and no future." –  Robert A. Heinlein

Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Trout Maharishi on January 21, 2022, 17:24:46 PM
Have we reached the ultimate stage of absurdity where some people are held responsible for things that happened before they were born, while other people are not held responsible for what they themselves are doing today?" Thomas Sowell
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Trout Maharishi on January 21, 2022, 17:33:08 PM
"Racism is not dead, but it is on life support – kept alive by politicians, race hustlers and people who get a sense of superiority by denouncing others as 'racists'"
— Thomas Sowell
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Trout Maharishi on January 21, 2022, 18:23:52 PM
"Racism has never done this country any good, and it needs to be fought against, not put under new management for different groups." – Thomas Sowell
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Yallerhammer on January 21, 2022, 19:34:47 PM
Yes, I reckon somehow I am inherently eve-ill because I was unknowingly born white instead of black. Bullshit.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Yallerhammer on January 21, 2022, 19:41:51 PM
I grew up poor as a shithouse rat. We had to go through "diversity training" at work, which is racist. We had a "privilege" exercise where everyone lined up in the middle of the room. If you had this when you were growing up, you take a step forward, if you didn't, you take a step back. At the end, There were a few folk at the front of the room. Most of them had on neckties or power woman suits. Most of the folks were still somewhere in the middle. At the back of the room against the wall was my hillbilly ass and a girl from Haiti. 
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Trout Maharishi on January 21, 2022, 22:29:50 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on January 21, 2022, 19:41:51 PMI grew up poor as a shithouse rat. We had to go through "diversity training" at work, which is racist. We had a "privilege" exercise where everyone lined up in the middle of the room. If you had this when you were growing up, you take a step forward, if you didn't, you take a step back. At the end, There were a few folk at the front of the room. Most of them had on neckties or power woman suits. Most of the folks were still somewhere in the middle. At the back of the room against the wall was my hillbilly ass and a girl from Haiti.  My pronoun is ME.
I identify as Haitian.  V:; My pronoun is ME.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 16:36:08 PM
Censorship is still alive and well in Tennessee. Guess not much has changed over there since the Scopes Monkey Trial almost 100 years ago.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-school-board-bans-holocaust-200828371.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 27, 2022, 16:47:43 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 16:36:08 PMCensorship is still alive and well in Tennessee. Guess not much has changed over there since the Scopes Monkey Trial almost 100 years ago.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-school-board-bans-holocaust-200828371.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall

"Welcome to Tennessee, patron state of shootin' stuff." -Bobby Lee Swagger

Also happening in other states.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 18:05:26 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 16:36:08 PMCensorship is still alive and well in Tennessee. Guess not much has changed over there since the Scopes Monkey Trial almost 100 years ago.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-school-board-bans-holocaust-200828371.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
I call bullshit on most of that. It's spun to death. Most conservatives I've been around are very pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Fundamentalist Christians consider Jews to be God's chosen people and respect them. I have never met an actual conservative holocaust denier or anti-Semite in over a half-century of life on this planet. Most of the anti-Semitism I see nowadays comes from Muslims and left-wing pro-Palestinians. Most of the folks I see wanting to ban stuff in general are extremely liberal.

As for the Scopes Monkey Trial, you are spot-on with that. I have met thousands of conservative Christian evolution deniers.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 27, 2022, 18:27:30 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 18:05:26 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 16:36:08 PMCensorship is still alive and well in Tennessee. Guess not much has changed over there since the Scopes Monkey Trial almost 100 years ago.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-school-board-bans-holocaust-200828371.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
I call bullshit on most of that. It's spun to death. Most conservatives I've been around are very pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Fundamentalist Christians consider Jews to be God's chosen people and respect them. I have never met an actual conservative holocaust denier or anti-Semite in over a half-century of life on this planet. Most of the anti-Semitism I see nowadays comes from Muslims and left-wing pro-Palestinians. Most of the folks I see wanting to ban stuff in general are extremely liberal.

As for the Scopes Monkey Trial, you are spot-on with that. I have met thousands of conservative Christian evolution deniers.


Yaller, you might be reading too much into the protest and ban.  I doubt half of the parents that were bitching and moaning could tell us one fact about the holocaust.

I don't believe the parents were holocaust deniers or anti-Jewish.  They had issues with the language and nudity ("......eight crude words like "damn" and "bitch" and one scene of nudity"). 
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 18:28:56 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 27, 2022, 18:27:30 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 18:05:26 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 16:36:08 PMCensorship is still alive and well in Tennessee. Guess not much has changed over there since the Scopes Monkey Trial almost 100 years ago.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-school-board-bans-holocaust-200828371.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
I call bullshit on most of that. It's spun to death. Most conservatives I've been around are very pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Fundamentalist Christians consider Jews to be God's chosen people and respect them. I have never met an actual conservative holocaust denier or anti-Semite in over a half-century of life on this planet. Most of the anti-Semitism I see nowadays comes from Muslims and left-wing pro-Palestinians. Most of the folks I see wanting to ban stuff in general are extremely liberal.

As for the Scopes Monkey Trial, you are spot-on with that. I have met thousands of conservative Christian evolution deniers.


Yaller, you might be reading too much into the protest and ban.  I doubt half of the parents that were bitching and moaning could tell us one fact about the holocaust.

I don't believe the parents were holocaust deniers or anti-Jewish.  They had issues with the language and nudity ("......eight crude words like "damn" and "bitch" and one scene of nudity"). 

I'll agree with that to an extent. I was referring to the obvious heavily-spun hateful feel of the article that paints all conservatives as evils sub-humans who are all anti-Semitic and wanting to ban everything enlightening. Most conservatives are fine with Jewish folks, but most Baptists will swear in public that they're against being nekkid and cussing and drinking. Unless they're somewhere in private being nekkid and cussing and drinking.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: greg on January 27, 2022, 18:54:41 PM
Banning books is a slippery damn slope.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 19:03:44 PM
Quote from: greg on January 27, 2022, 18:54:41 PMBanning books is a slippery damn slope.
Yep. I agree. It ain't just the conservatives, though. Atlas Shrugged would be ok to ban for a lot of folks. And canceling folks and banning them from all social media for non-conformist (conservative) views.

Speaking of the Holocaust, I read a Rasmussen poll the other day where 45% of liberals think it would be ok to put unvaccinated Americans into internment camps. Divide, other, conquer. Been working for centuries.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 27, 2022, 19:04:52 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 18:28:56 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 27, 2022, 18:27:30 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 18:05:26 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 16:36:08 PMCensorship is still alive and well in Tennessee. Guess not much has changed over there since the Scopes Monkey Trial almost 100 years ago.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-school-board-bans-holocaust-200828371.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
I call bullshit on most of that. It's spun to death. Most conservatives I've been around are very pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Fundamentalist Christians consider Jews to be God's chosen people and respect them. I have never met an actual conservative holocaust denier or anti-Semite in over a half-century of life on this planet. Most of the anti-Semitism I see nowadays comes from Muslims and left-wing pro-Palestinians. Most of the folks I see wanting to ban stuff in general are extremely liberal.

As for the Scopes Monkey Trial, you are spot-on with that. I have met thousands of conservative Christian evolution deniers.


Yaller, you might be reading too much into the protest and ban.  I doubt half of the parents that were bitching and moaning could tell us one fact about the holocaust.

I don't believe the parents were holocaust deniers or anti-Jewish.  They had issues with the language and nudity ("......eight crude words like "damn" and "bitch" and one scene of nudity"). 

I'll agree with that to an extent. I was referring to the obvious heavily-spun hateful feel of the article that paints all conservatives as evils sub-humans who are all anti-Semitic and wanting to ban everything enlightening. Most conservatives are fine with Jewish folks, but most Baptists will swear in public that they're against being nekkid and cussing and drinking. Unless they're somewhere in private being nekkid and cussing and drinking.


I think you might be overly protective and defensive of your tribe.  There are ignorant dumbassed liberals and there are ignorant dumbassed conservatives. 

In this TN case it is likely a few ignorant dumbassed members of the conservative clan.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 19:07:25 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 27, 2022, 19:04:52 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 18:28:56 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 27, 2022, 18:27:30 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 18:05:26 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 16:36:08 PMCensorship is still alive and well in Tennessee. Guess not much has changed over there since the Scopes Monkey Trial almost 100 years ago.

https://news.yahoo.com/us-school-board-bans-holocaust-200828371.html?fr=sycsrp_catchall
I call bullshit on most of that. It's spun to death. Most conservatives I've been around are very pro-Jewish and pro-Israel. Fundamentalist Christians consider Jews to be God's chosen people and respect them. I have never met an actual conservative holocaust denier or anti-Semite in over a half-century of life on this planet. Most of the anti-Semitism I see nowadays comes from Muslims and left-wing pro-Palestinians. Most of the folks I see wanting to ban stuff in general are extremely liberal.

As for the Scopes Monkey Trial, you are spot-on with that. I have met thousands of conservative Christian evolution deniers.


Yaller, you might be reading too much into the protest and ban.  I doubt half of the parents that were bitching and moaning could tell us one fact about the holocaust.

I don't believe the parents were holocaust deniers or anti-Jewish.  They had issues with the language and nudity ("......eight crude words like "damn" and "bitch" and one scene of nudity"). 

I'll agree with that to an extent. I was referring to the obvious heavily-spun hateful feel of the article that paints all conservatives as evils sub-humans who are all anti-Semitic and wanting to ban everything enlightening. Most conservatives are fine with Jewish folks, but most Baptists will swear in public that they're against being nekkid and cussing and drinking. Unless they're somewhere in private being nekkid and cussing and drinking.


I think you might be overly protective and defensive of your tribe.  There are ignorant dumbassed liberals and there are ignorant dumbassed conservatives. 

In this TN case it is likely a few ignorant dumbassed members of the conservative clan.

I have absolutely no disagreement with you on that. There are plenty of ignorant, fanatical dumbasses on both sides who totally lack the ability to think for themselves.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 19:23:14 PM
Amazing to me that these censors are put off by words such as damn and bitch. We just had a president call a journalist a dumb son of a bitch, and the previous president's foul mouth is a matter of public knowledge, yet nobody seems to give a darn.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 19:26:50 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 19:23:14 PMAmazing to me that these censors are put off by words such as damn and bitch. We just had a president call a journalist a dumb son of a bitch, and the previous president's foul mouth is a matter of public knowledge, yet nobody seems to give a darn.
Yep. I grew up in a world where you would go to Hell for fishing or mowing your yard on Sunday or saying fuck.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Onslow on January 28, 2022, 05:11:11 AM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 19:23:14 PMAmazing to me that these censors are put off by words such as damn and bitch. We just had a president call a journalist a dumb son of a bitch, and the previous president's foul mouth is a matter of public knowledge, yet nobody seems to give a darn.

Yes, and both Biden and Trump suck. Next....
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: jwgnc on January 28, 2022, 15:11:42 PM
My wife was born in Athens/McMinn County Tennessee, and I saw the initial article in the local rag - Daily Post Athenian.  And then the internet took it to task.  The publisher and the author, Art Spiegelman, are certainly enjoying the new$.

Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 29, 2022, 11:29:48 AM
Quote from: Onslow on January 29, 2022, 08:03:39 AMCan't we all just get along and enjoy life and quit being so damn self righteous?


Here's my answer, which has no significance or certainty, other than in my fucked-up mind. Please note: coprolalia is a human trait. 

We humans are likely the most tribal, selfish, congenerous critter on earth, a critter who for thousands of years has remained vulnerable and credulous to superstitions, myths, and a surplus of flummery and mummery.  Humans are the poorest, least efficient data collecting organisms on the planet.  Thus, the fragility of the human race.       
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: joe friday on January 29, 2022, 12:01:15 PM
Along those same lines...

My wife is a high school librarian here in Pitt County, NC.  Our local school board just mandated a policy of parental control/consent over books offered in the curriculum.  This came about because a few parents complained about what their "babies" were being exposed to.  Granted, there are absolutely many sensitive topic matters in the books they cited, (dealing with race, LGBTQ issues, some profanity) and the books may be uncomfortable to us older adults, but that's nothing compared to what teens are engaging with through social media, popular culture, music, and real life.  My teacher friends are shaking their heads at the puritan board members. 

And then I see that a school board in Tennessee has removed the novel MAUS from its curriculum on the Holocaust because it contains 8 curse words and 1 illustration of nudity.

Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: joe friday on January 29, 2022, 12:04:20 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on January 27, 2022, 19:26:50 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on January 27, 2022, 19:23:14 PMAmazing to me that these censors are put off by words such as damn and bitch. We just had a president call a journalist a dumb son of a bitch, and the previous president's foul mouth is a matter of public knowledge, yet nobody seems to give a darn.
Yep. I grew up in a world where you would go to Hell for fishing or mowing your yard on Sunday or saying fuck.

That happened to me!  (not the going to hell part) But I had a teacher one time berate me at school after she saw me mowing my grandmother's yard on a Sunday.  This was back in 1978 or so.   I still tell that story to my kids, and I don't mow grass on Sundays! Now I fish! :;!
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Woolly Bugger on January 29, 2022, 12:17:11 PM
I was a no mow on Sunday guy - grandma wouldn't play cards or do housework on a Sunday 
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 29, 2022, 12:26:38 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on January 29, 2022, 12:17:11 PMI was a no mow on Sunday guy - grandma wouldn't play cards or do housework on a Sunday 

I used to mow my mother's grass on Sundays, just to hear her bitch and moan.  I feel she believed every word of the BOOK.  She'd give me this hokum and bunkum about working on Sundays, I'd then follow with mowing grass for me was not work, but relaxation from the wife, and how did those ancients in the book of Numbers distinguish between work and relaxation?  That dude could have been gathering sticks for leisure or perhaps it was his bizarre way of praising and serving the lord.  She'd go full bore unhinged on me, but it only continued for a few minutes.  I miss the fun we had.  I think she enjoyed the Sunday conflicts as much as I did.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 29, 2022, 15:32:21 PM
Quote from: Onslow on January 29, 2022, 14:00:21 PMWhile I do not agree with Putin's tactics, I completely understand his stance.

https://www.rt.com/russia/547437-traditional-values-foreign-amorality/



This Russian propaganda might be the most self-righteous crap I've seen recently.

Quote from: Onslow on January 29, 2022, 08:03:39 AMCan't we all just get along and enjoy life and quit being so damn self righteous?


Can you have both?  Contradictory opinions in such a short time? 

Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Onslow on January 29, 2022, 17:20:54 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 29, 2022, 15:32:21 PM
Quote from: Onslow on January 29, 2022, 14:00:21 PMWhile I do not agree with Putin's tactics, I completely understand his stance.

https://www.rt.com/russia/547437-traditional-values-foreign-amorality/



This Russian propaganda might be the most self-righteous crap I've seen recently.

Quote from: Onslow on January 29, 2022, 08:03:39 AMCan't we all just get along and enjoy life and quit being so damn self righteous?


Can you have both?  Contradictory opinions in such a short time? 



There is no contradiction here.  It is important to understand how other cultures roll.  Not doing so is costly.

If the Democrats would've bothered to understand the Hispanic community, perhaps they would have not lost them as a voting bloc.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: trout-r-us on January 29, 2022, 20:14:45 PM
Since the Ministers, Priests, Rabbis, Scribes, Pharisees, all the King's Horses, and all the King's Men can't even come to an agreement on what day the Sabbath should be celebrated, I don't think I'm gonna worry too much about when I can fish, work, pray, etc.
I recall years ago when Blue Laws resulted in most all stores being closed on Sunday, we would merely go to a Jewish neighborhood and be able to buy whatever we needed, 'cause they celebrate Saturday as the day of rest. 
Both Jews and Gentiles have the same commandment, i.e. "Remember to keep holy the Sabbath day", just acknowledged on different days of the week. Go figure.
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Onslow on January 30, 2022, 05:31:04 AM
Fighting over which to rest is irrational, impractical, and a waste, and defies common sense at first glance, but on the flip side, some form of social order must be adhered to in order to mitigate chaos, and actions of thoughtless people.  The push and pull will always be there.

Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: trout-r-us on January 30, 2022, 09:00:48 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on January 29, 2022, 11:29:48 AMHere's my answer, which has no significance or certainty, other than in my fucked-up mind. Please note: coprolalia is a human trait. 

We humans are likely the most tribal, selfish, congenerous critter on earth, a critter who for thousands of years has remained vulnerable and credulous to superstitions, myths, and a surplus of flummery and mummery.  Humans are the poorest, least efficient data collecting organisms on the planet.  Thus, the fragility of the human race.       


Coprolalia, congenerous, flummery, mummery ??  😳
I'm sure glad they have the "lookup" function on this here computer machine.  But then I realized I should have known mummery, since I'd been to the New Year's Day Mummers parade in Philadelphia many times over the years.  <-;:
Title: Re: Doublethink and Newspeak In Action
Post by: Onslow on February 15, 2022, 05:33:00 AM

https://asiatimes.com/2022/02/is-the-ukraine-crisis-just-another-us-charade/

QuoteVladimir Putin, the Russian president, has denied he has any intention of invading Ukraine. His demand is that the process of adding new members to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization cease and that in particular, Russia has an assurance that Ukraine and Georgia will never be members.


US President Joe Biden has refused to give such an assurance, but made clear his willingness to continue discussing questions of strategic stability in Europe. Meanwhile, the Ukrainian government has made clear it has no intention of implementing the agreement reached in 2015 for reuniting the Donbas provinces into Ukraine with a large degree of local autonomy – an agreement with Russia, France and Germany that the United States endorsed.

Maybe I am wrong – tragically wrong – but I cannot dismiss the suspicion that we are witnessing an elaborate charade, grossly magnified by prominent elements of the American media, to serve a domestic political end.

Facing rising inflation, the ravages of Covid-19, blame (for the most part unfair) for the withdrawal from Afghanistan, plus the failure to get the full support of his own party for the Build Back Better legislation, Biden's administration is staggering under sagging approval ratings just as it gears up for this year's congressional elections.

Since clear "victories" on the domestic woes seem increasingly unlikely, why not fabricate one by posing as if he prevented the invasion of Ukraine by "standing up to Vladimir Putin"?