Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial

Started by Woolly Bugger, July 07, 2015, 11:05:51 AM

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Should Confederate Memorials stay or go?

Keep them.
18 (69.2%)
Good riddance
8 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Michael Toris


Onslow

#406
https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-dorset-53004638

"Following police information, the 12-year-old statue of Robert Baden-Powell is to be "temporarily" removed to protect it, Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole (BCP) Council said.

The statue will have 24-hour security protection until it can be removed.

Protesters gathered at the quayside to show support for the statue.
"

Lord Baden-Powell started the World Scouting Movement. 

The Scout uniform is a symbol of equality, but yet here we are.   


Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Onslow

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 15, 2020, 08:16:00 AM
Quote from: Onslow on June 14, 2020, 17:44:16 PMThe Scout uniform is a symbol of equality, but yet here we are. 



Debatable?  Yes. No. Maybe.

https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2013/01/christopher-hitchens-on-the-mildly-fascist-founder-of-the-boy-scouts/272683/

I wasn't around in 1933, and do not have a firm handle on the behavior of Mussolini or Hitler during that time. I have spoken to grandchildren of those who were early Hitler supporters. Hitler was regarded by some as the savior of Germany in the during the brutal post WWI era, and he promised a pig for every family. Times were very tough.  It seems odd that a man of Imperial Great Britain would be empathetic to anyone in  the former Central Powers, or emerging Axis. I doubt anyone knew in 1933 how the story would end.


This article is just another purity test piece. There is no purity on this earth, unless one believes in the supernatural. One cannot have it both ways.

Onslow

Not so common common sense.

Thou shalt not bear false witness" forbids: "1. Speaking falsely in any matter, lying, equivocating, and any way devising and designing to deceive our neighbor. ... Speaking unjustly against our neighbor, to the prejudice of his reputation; and (which involves the guilty of both).

Yallerhammer

#410
By all means, let's echo the actions of the Taliban when they dynamited the Buddha statues, and obliterate any reminder of history that we don't agree with. Let's judge people in the past by today's standards, and whitewash history so that it doesn't exist, or maybe re-write it into a more politically correct version so that no one is offended or triggered. Then, everything will be perfect and utopian. We certainly wouldn't want to learn from history, or acknowledge that all of our ancestors a couple hundred years ago weren't 2020 "woke."
Women want me, doughbellies fear me. - Little Debbie Prostaff

Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 15, 2020, 11:08:09 AMBy all means, let's echo the actions of the Taliban when they dynamited the Buddha statues, and obliterate any reminder of history that we don't agree with. Let's judge people in the past by today's standards, and whitewash history so that it doesn't exist, or maybe re-write it into a more politically correct version so that no one is offended or triggered. Then, everything will be perfect and utopian. We certainly wouldn't want to learn from history, or acknowledge that all of our ancestors a couple hundred years ago weren't 2020 "woke."

I agree; there is little gained in obliterating "any reminder of history that we don't agree with".  But there is also no rational reason to honor, revere those historic personalities with questionable decency, even under today's standards.  Perhaps "today's standards" are healthier, better, improved.  I happen to believe in the evolution of morality.
"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Yallerhammer

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 15, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 15, 2020, 11:08:09 AMBy all means, let's echo the actions of the Taliban when they dynamited the Buddha statues, and obliterate any reminder of history that we don't agree with. Let's judge people in the past by today's standards, and whitewash history so that it doesn't exist, or maybe re-write it into a more politically correct version so that no one is offended or triggered. Then, everything will be perfect and utopian. We certainly wouldn't want to learn from history, or acknowledge that all of our ancestors a couple hundred years ago weren't 2020 "woke."

I agree; there is little gained in obliterating "any reminder of history that we don't agree with".  But there is also no rational reason to honor, revere those historic personalities with questionable decency, even under today's standards.  Perhaps "today's standards" are healthier, better, improved.  I happen to believe in the evolution of morality.
Lincoln had the same standards, by and large, as did most folks of the day. If you read some of his statements concerning the black race, it would curl your hair. Yet, no one wants to take down his monument.
Women want me, doughbellies fear me. - Little Debbie Prostaff

Michael Toris


Woolly Bugger

Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 16, 2020, 11:07:13 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on June 15, 2020, 12:55:27 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 15, 2020, 11:08:09 AMBy all means, let's echo the actions of the Taliban when they dynamited the Buddha statues, and obliterate any reminder of history that we don't agree with. Let's judge people in the past by today's standards, and whitewash history so that it doesn't exist, or maybe re-write it into a more politically correct version so that no one is offended or triggered. Then, everything will be perfect and utopian. We certainly wouldn't want to learn from history, or acknowledge that all of our ancestors a couple hundred years ago weren't 2020 "woke."

I agree; there is little gained in obliterating "any reminder of history that we don't agree with".  But there is also no rational reason to honor, revere those historic personalities with questionable decency, even under today's standards.  Perhaps "today's standards" are healthier, better, improved.  I happen to believe in the evolution of morality.
Lincoln had the same standards, by and large, as did most folks of the day. If you read some of his statements concerning the black race, it would curl your hair. Yet, no one wants to take down his monument.

Calls grow to remove statue of Lincoln standing over freed black man in Boston

>>>The Emancipation Memorial statue that has stood in Park Square for more than 100 years shows President Lincoln with one hand raised standing above a half-clothed freed slave who is kneeling at Lincoln's feet with broken chains on his wrists.


https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/equality/502948-calls-grow-to-remove-statue-of-lincoln-standing-over-freed
ex - I'm not going to live with you through one more fishing season!
me -There's a season?

Pastor explains icons to my son: you know like the fish symbol on the back of cars.
My son: My dad has two fish on his car and they're both trout!

Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

Quote from: Yallerhammer on June 16, 2020, 11:07:13 AMLincoln had the same standards, by and large, as did most folks of the day. If you read some of his statements concerning the black race, it would curl your hair. Yet, no one wants to take down his monument.


Yes, Lincoln voiced some disturbing statements, particularly early in his career (~1858).  But I'll argue he evolved over the next ~7 years.  I can't say the same for some others, and I'm not sure as a nation we've completely healed after 150+ years.  Plus, he was not a traitor to the U.S.A. 

Maybe it is an inherent problem with symbols/statues/monuments.  Perhaps we need to do a more thorough job of vetting, selecting, and honoring our heroes.  I only have 3 champions or heroes in my life.  My immediate family for their malleability to endure my BS, my late father for his compassion and optimism, and nature for its indifference.  Certainly, there are others that I admire and even outwardly label as heroes, but that is just me, drifting from the truth and what I truly believe.
"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Dougfish

We need more statues of Pan. And other lighthearted works of art.

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"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here?
 Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? "
Kelly's Heroes,1970

"I don't wanna go to hell,
But if I do,
It'll be 'cause of you..."
Strange Desire, The Black Keys, 2006

Woolly Bugger

Quote from: Dougfish on June 17, 2020, 14:41:57 PMWe need more statues of Pan. And other lighthearted works of art.

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I see your Pan and Raise you

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Replace General Lee on Monument Ave with this one...
ex - I'm not going to live with you through one more fishing season!
me -There's a season?

Pastor explains icons to my son: you know like the fish symbol on the back of cars.
My son: My dad has two fish on his car and they're both trout!

troutrus


Phil