http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m5d8-BP-oil-dome-fails-Industry-veteran-says-spill-will-not-stop-until-well-runs-dry (http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m5d8-BP-oil-dome-fails-Industry-veteran-says-spill-will-not-stop-until-well-runs-dry)
Damn!
Let's pray they find a fix.
Sadly we don't even know the extent and duration that this disaster is going to have on the economy and life of gulf states and beyond. At least it is a vivid reminder on why there should be concern for offshore drilling. I guess the most disappointing and frustrating aspect is a lack of a viable contingency plan. I realize that deep water drilling is pretty cutting edge, but one would think that engineers would have been tasked to have a solution in place for what happens if the BOV fails. Before it actually failed. Or was it like the Titanic, it was an impossible scenario?
Quote from: mattnmtns on May 09, 2010, 11:55:29 AM
I guess the most disappointing and frustrating aspect is a lack of a viable contingency plan. I realize that deep water drilling is pretty cutting edge, but one would think that engineers would have been tasked to have a solution in place
Could it have been that BP/big oil lobbyists persuaded the government to fore-go a safer contingency requirement?? ???
From cnn linked article dated 5/10: http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/10/gulf.oil/index.html?hpt=T2 - 'BP is legally required to cover economic damages from the spill up to $75 million.' Hardly a drop in the ocean... >:(
Quote from: jkilday4 on May 10, 2010, 12:06:26 PM
Could it have been that BP/big oil lobbyists persuaded the government to fore-go a safer contingency requirement?? ???
What is the "safer contingency requirement" you are referring to?
Quote from: Flatlander on May 10, 2010, 14:06:44 PM
Quote from: jkilday4 on May 10, 2010, 12:06:26 PM
Could it have been that BP/big oil lobbyists persuaded the government to fore-go a safer contingency requirement?? ???
What is the "safer contingency requirement" you are referring to?
The workers did not have time to switch on the blow out preventer and the "automatic switch" failed. BP id not install a remote acoustic switch that is the third way to activate the blow out preventer because it is not required by the USA. It is required by other countires.
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/05/04/04greenwire-warnings-on-backup-systems-for-oil-rigs-sounde-30452.html
Quote from: jkilday4 on May 10, 2010, 12:06:26 PM
BP is legally required to cover economic damages from the spill up to $75 million.' Hardly a drop in the ocean... >:(
It is laughable that there is a cap like that. Hell BP was under contract paying Transocean just about $500,000 a day to operate Deep Horizon. That isn't even a molecule in the ocean.
Quote from: Silver Creek on May 10, 2010, 18:34:03 PM
Quote from: Flatlander on May 10, 2010, 14:06:44 PM
Quote from: jkilday4 on May 10, 2010, 12:06:26 PM
Could it have been that BP/big oil lobbyists persuaded the government to fore-go a safer contingency requirement?? ???
What is the "safer contingency requirement" you are referring to?
The workers did not have time to switch on the blow out preventer and the "automatic switch" failed. BP id not install a remote acoustic switch that is the third way to activate the blow out preventer because it is not required by the USA. It is required by other countires.
http://www.nytimes.com/gwire/2010/05/04/04greenwire-warnings-on-backup-systems-for-oil-rigs-sounde-30452.html
Yeah, that's how I understand it as well. A lot has been written about the accoustical switches (or lack thereof), but if the BOP failed and could not be activated by the remote undersea vehicle, then it seems doubtful that an accoustical switch would have worked any better.
make me sick, this will be with us for the rest of our lives...
I read in one of the articles that if they can't find a solution waiting for the reservoir to run out may end up being the only option. I'm obviously not an expert but it seems we wouldn't know how much oil is under there. I'm starting to wonder if this has just screwed us all for a long time. Seems this is a lot worse that just a "spill", which is what everyone is comparing it to.
It sucks all the way around. I read today that so far 3.5 million gallons have "spilled" Katrina caused 8 million and Exxon Valdese was 10+ million.
Lets hope they get a friggin handle on this as it has the potential to dwarf Katrina and Valdese combined.
I'm with Woolly, this will be with us for the rest of our lives.. I am usually not one for a whole lot of gvt intervention, but in this instance the oil companies need to be made to insure safeguards and back up systems are in place. The long term costs and effects of this will greatly outweigh the upfront costs of such preventative measures.
Funny how BP has pulled their eco ads from TV
Quote from: Flatlander on May 10, 2010, 19:46:39 PM
Yeah, that's how I understand it as well. A lot has been written about the accoustical switches (or lack thereof), but if the BOP failed and could not be activated by the remote undersea vehicle, then it seems doubtful that an accoustical switch would have worked any better.
My undertanding is that all connections to the blow out preventer were destroyed. I thought the remove vehicles were trying to stop the actual leaks and not activate the switch. If there an acoustic switch was installed then the remove vehicle could have activated the switch with an acoustic signal.
Am I mistaken?
Quote from: dnakamoto on May 10, 2010, 20:01:47 PM
I read in one of the articles that if they can't find a solution waiting for the reservoir to run out may end up being the only option. I'm obviously not an expert but it seems we wouldn't know how much oil is under there. I'm starting to wonder if this has just screwed us all for a long time. Seems this is a lot worse that just a "spill", which is what everyone is comparing it to.
As I understand it, the next solution is to sink an angled "relief well" that will lower the pressure at the well head and also allow them to inject a slurry that will plug the leak.
Quote from: Silver Creek on May 11, 2010, 10:24:35 AM
Quote from: Flatlander on May 10, 2010, 19:46:39 PM
Yeah, that's how I understand it as well. A lot has been written about the accoustical switches (or lack thereof), but if the BOP failed and could not be activated by the remote undersea vehicle, then it seems doubtful that an accoustical switch would have worked any better.
My undertanding is that all connections to the blow out preventer were destroyed. I thought the remove vehicles were trying to stop the actual leaks and not activate the switch. If there an acoustic switch was installed then the remove vehicle could have activated the switch with an acoustic signal.
Am I mistaken?
I have read many different accounts regarding the BOP failure. My understanding is that the crew did try to deploy it before abandoning the rig. I read one account that said the BOP deployed(crimp, shear and seal), but failed to seal the pipe. Now it sounds like it didn't activate at all. I have also read that attempts were made with a remote vehicle to deploy the BOP on the sea floor, but those failed as well, which would probably mean that an accoustical switch wouldn't have worked either. Who knows what really happened? Lot of finger-pointing between the various parties involved. Clearly BP does not have a good record and is going to take a big hit.
http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/25238/?a=f (http://www.technologyreview.com/energy/25238/?a=f)
(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/4551846015_412a4c11c3.jpg)
Watching the head of BP, Transocean, and Halliburten at the senate hearing today was like the 3 monkey mantra; see no evil, hear no evil, and speak no evil. What a mess, and knowing that BP has a cap on it's liability of 75M is laughable. One more thing, all those that say see I told you so, and we need to stop drilling off shore. Check who else is drilling in the Gulf of Mexico :o What are we going to do when they have one of these disasters. ???
As everyone has already said "Big mess" and we are going to live with it for a long time.
We shouldn't stop drilling but we sure need to make sure there is a plan in place that is properly resourced to insure we can react quickly if and when there is another spill.
As I understand it BP and it's sub contractors did and are doing exactly what is required of them by existing law. Of course the laws and plans were written with help from lobbyists who contributed tons of money to our congressmen and senators.
Anyone want to guess who the largest recipient of BP money was?
Anyone want to hazard a guess of who failed to resource the Coast Guards back up plan if the private sector could not cope with a major spill?
Al, to a large extent i agree with you. But before we drill more wells in such environmentally sensitive places, we need to look at existing wells that are capped and not producing. I grew up in West Virginia and I have hunted on many farms. There are not many farms without an oil well or two. Unfortunately very few are working because they are capped. There are thousands of wells capable of producing oil all over the country that are not being used. It is a shame to leave them sit idle. I can show you a farm with an oil well in the front yard with 3 inch pipe sticking 25 feet out of the ground burning off excess gas. this fire has been burning for the past 30 years that i know of. How can we justify new wells when we have old ones idle? Can it be corprate greed?
In the past 30 years fuel mileage in cars has decreased. Why has technology decreased the mileage, instead of increasing it?
Remember mid term elections are around the corner. Thats the time to voice your anger, let them know at the polls. I plan to cast a vote to cut a few heads out.
Then 2012, is not really far away either.
This administration has done nothing to help, time for them to leave. The ocean is being polluted and Obama sits on his hands. The buck stops with this administration, time to make them pay.
This new video was just released. It looks like BP was holding back video until the pressure to release it got to be too much. That being said this what they released and I noticed the date says 11/15/10. It could be just an incorrect date programmed or it could be BP releasing a video that isn't accurate. Who knows.... Has anyone seen anything saying how big the hole is in feet. Looking at the video its hard to gauge.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJ91G3e0OBQ
I heard on CNN this morning that there is more natural gas coming out of the well head than before. At least that means not quite as much oil is leaking, for what it is worth. It is still a depressing situation.
Quote from: Al on May 11, 2010, 20:15:08 PM
Anyone want to guess who the largest recipient of BP money was?
Is this suddenly a problem? It wasn't too long ago that the conservative Supreme Court ruled that bribes and payola to government officials is the American way and a Constitutional right!
Quote from: Peddler on May 13, 2010, 07:30:21 AM
Quote from: Al on May 11, 2010, 20:15:08 PM
Anyone want to guess who the largest recipient of BP money was?
Is this suddenly a problem? It wasn't too long ago that the conservative Supreme Court ruled that bribes and payola to government officials is the American way and a Constitutional right!
Unions have done it for years, they just side stepped the law by having members do the donating. A corporation is a separate entity in every other way, why not level the playing field. Why do liberals hate big corporations so much (well except the ones making big donations to them), but love big government?
Quote from: Trout Maharishi on May 13, 2010, 08:47:30 AM
Quote from: Peddler on May 13, 2010, 07:30:21 AM
Quote from: Al on May 11, 2010, 20:15:08 PM
Anyone want to guess who the largest recipient of BP money was?
Is this suddenly a problem? It wasn't too long ago that the conservative Supreme Court ruled that bribes and payola to government officials is the American way and a Constitutional right!
Unions have done it for years, they just side stepped the law by having members do the donating. A corporation is a separate entity in every other way, why not level the playing field. Why do liberals hate big corporations so much (well except the ones making big donations to them), but love big government?
>>>they just side stepped the law by having members do the donating.<<<
You mean ordinary citizens? :j
Though you went off on a few huge flyers with this rant, I was just pointing out the irony of someone griping about campaign contributions when their party made contributing by corporations the American way.
Why is it Republicans feel that corporations can do no wrong? Why is it Republicans are always out to enrich the rich and screw the little guy? Why did government shrink under Bill Clinton and grow, big time, under Bush? Why is it you folks can't see things as they actually occurred and keep regurgitating some pie-in-the-sky, Rove-esque sound bites as IF they were REALITY?
The biggest problem you have now is that we have facts and recent history to review.
The point I was trying to make was that when a union says they back a candidate, what that really mean is 'we are telling all our members to donate to that candidate'. Traditionally labor unions in particular have supported Democrat candidates. I think you overlook people like Andy Stern and SEIU, did you know he has made more visits to the White House than anyone else since OHBUMMER was elected? His finger prints were all over health care. Jack, look at what unions have done to the part of the country you come from. Cities like Detroit are a wastelands. Like it or not, big corpertions provide jobs and provide a huge portion of the tax base in US. I don't know why you have such a complex about being the little guy, I remember you as being kinda tall and lanky ;D You are right about one thing, we need to review facts of recent history. We as a nation may never recover from the disasters that the current administration has created in the last year and a half.
Goodness gracious TM! Don't tell me that ("We as a nation may never recover from the disasters that the current administration has created in the last year and a half.") I am still trying to recover from the 8 years of the prior administration. Now, you're making me paranoid. You used the word "may", so there is at least a flicker of hope in your mind, correct? For the love of Saint Peter on a popsicle stick, between you and Al, whom I respect very much, I am depressed as hell. Please Dear God, I just want to grow old and trusting.
Quote from: bugman on May 13, 2010, 16:06:32 PM
Goodness gracious TM! Don't tell me that ("We as a nation may never recover from the disasters that the current administration has created in the last year and a half.") I am still trying to recover from the 8 years of the prior administration. Now, you're making me paranoid. You used the word "may", so there is at least a flicker of hope in your mind, correct? For the love of Saint Peter on a popsicle stick, between you and Al, whom I respect very much, I am depressed as hell. Please Dear God, I just want to grow old and trusting.
More gasoline on the fire >:D This cartoon, drawn by Carey Orr, was in the Chicago Tribune in 1934. Look carefully at the plan of action in the lower left corner.
"Those who do not remember the past are doomed to repeat it."
Insanity: Definition, repeating the same thing over and over again, expecting different results each time...
Bwhahahahahaha!
On the other hand!......... "ITS CHANGE"
Fuck I bout pissed myself.... ;D
Bugman,
I haven't trusted the government (either party) in a long time. I think I lost my trust of government about the time LBJ was president, and it's been all downhill since. Just out of curiosity thought; what changed about your life during the Bush administration? Don't get me wrong I have no illusions about his inept ability to control spending and a out of control House and Senate. You still have a job, you are still making a good living, you most likely still have some very good benefits. Let me tell you about me and my problems that have transpired as a direct result of an inept and incompetent government . I've lost a construction company that I owned for 21 years, I work 2 jobs making half as mush as I did before, and all I see is "my" government going deeper and deeper into debt every day. Spending per capita has never been higher, government growth and expansion has never been bigger, the percentage of debt to GDP has never been higher, wait, maybe it was during WWII, I'll have to check on that. The government is trying to take control of everything from the car companies to Wall Street and health care. Where is that money going to come from to sustain this pace? Look at Greece, we are well on the way. Either taxes will have to be raised or someone is gonna get screwed out of something, like Social Security or other retirement benefits. I'm like you in that I would love to just relax and grow old and live out my life in relative comfort, but at this rate I fear that scenario my not happen. Don't get me confused with some right wing nut job that hates liberals, I dislike both sides. I simply want a minimum of government interference in my life, and this crowd in power now is way too far up my ass to suit me ;). I'm finished, gotta go pack for Troutfest. I'm leaving in the morning unless OHBUMMER calls me and needs some advice ;D.
Jack, ya'll have a good weekend over at Shady Valley ;D
Bugman, tell your son thanks for his service from another old vet 0--0