Pretentious Snobby Bastard Fly Fishing!

SC hasn't been able to come up with the drugs for lethal injection. And recently changed the law and made accommodations in the execution room for death by firing squad.



They gave Richard Bernard Moore, who was convicted for killing a convivence store clerk back in 1999, a choice of Electric Chair or Firing Squad. He chose the latter, but his execution is now on hold as a temporary stay has been issued dealing with the constitutionality of his choice, both of which he declares are cruel and unusual.

South Carolina Supreme Court halts state's plan for firing squad execution

https://www.latimes.com/world-nation/story/2022-04-20/court-halts-south-carolina-firing-squad-execution

Here are the 35 men on South Carolina's death row

https://www.wbtw.com/news/state-regional-news/here-are-the-35-men-on-south-carolinas-death-row/

A Tennessee inmate scheduled for execution by lethal injection Thursday has selected his last meal.

The Tennessee Department of Correction (TDOC) says Oscar Smith, 72, has selected a double bacon cheeseburger, deep-dish apple pie, and vanilla bean ice cream for his last meal. It will be provided to him on Thursday.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/tennessee-inmate-scheduled-for-execution-selects-last-meal/ar-AAWq7hP?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=9f9941ac3a064b9497b49b697384fc26

and then you have cases like this...

where cops use interrogation to elicit false confessions.

A woman who insists she falsely pleaded guilty to killing her two-year-old daughter in 2007, made a last-ditch attempt to stop her April 27 Texas execution on Monday.

Lawyers from the Innocence Project representing Melissa Lucio, 53, filed a request for clemency with the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles, a move that Innocence Project attorney Vanessa Potkin characterized as Lucio's last legal option.

A woman who insists she falsely pleaded guilty to killing her two-year-old daughter in 2007, made a last-ditch attempt to stop her April 27 Texas execution on Monday.

Lawyers from the Innocence Project representing Melissa Lucio, 53, filed a request for clemency with the Texas Board of Pardons and Paroles, a move that Innocence Project attorney Vanessa Potkin characterized as Lucio's last legal option.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10731657/Texas-woman-falsely-pled-guilty-killing-daughter-makes-ditch-attempt-stay-execution.html?fr=operanews


always Lawyer Up!

The thing that complicates the death penalty for me -- the number of people on death row (or already put to death) that are actually innocent.
"National Academy of Sciences Reports Four Percent of Death Row Inmates are Innocent. In a study released today, the National Academy of Sciences reports that at least 4.1 percent of defendants sentenced to death in the United States are innocent."

I wonder if the number is actually higher....

I'm all for doing away with the death penalty. Killing is wrong, it doesn't matter if it's one man doing it to another or the state doing it to a criminal. I never though the death penalty was much of a deterrent. The last meal thing is always interesting. I'd want a couple hookers and some good party favors.https://www.ranker.com/list/most-elaborate-death-row-final-meals/john-barryman (https://www.ranker.com/list/most-elaborate-death-row-final-meals/john-barryman)

Also make you wonder about the number of innocent people in general population

Federal and state prisons: 1,518,559
Juvenile facilities (2007): 86,927
Local jails: 785,556
Total: 2,418,352
4% = 96,734


As of January 1, 2022, there were 2,436 death row inmates in the United States— 4% = 97

Quote from: Woolly Bugger on April 20, 2022, 19:07:07 PMAlso make you wonder about the number of innocent people in general population

Federal and state prisons: 1,518,559
Juvenile facilities (2007): 86,927
Local jails: 785,556
Total: 2,418,352
4% = 96,734


As of January 1, 2022, there were 2,436 death row inmates in the United States— 4% = 97

I'm not all that worried about that because most of the time by the time you actually get sent to prison you have a rap sheet as long as your arm. Almost every time I see some crazy stuff happen like just happend in NY on the subway you see the guys record and I go "how the hell is he not already in jail?" You commit a violent crime or assault of any manner on another person espically with a firearm,  you need to be locked up.

Quote from: Trout Maharishi on April 20, 2022, 19:07:03 PMI'm all for doing away with the death penalty. Killing is wrong, it doesn't matter if it's one man doing it to another or the state doing it to a criminal. I never though the death penalty was much of a deterrent. The last meal thing is always interesting. I'd want a couple hookers and some good party favors.https://www.ranker.com/list/most-elaborate-death-row-final-meals/john-barryman (https://www.ranker.com/list/most-elaborate-death-row-final-meals/john-barryman)

"I did not get my SpaghettiOs, I got spaghetti. I want the press to know this."

Quote from: Woolly Bugger on April 20, 2022, 20:49:57 PM

Quote from: Trout Maharishi on April 20, 2022, 19:07:03 PMI'm all for doing away with the death penalty. Killing is wrong, it doesn't matter if it's one man doing it to another or the state doing it to a criminal. I never though the death penalty was much of a deterrent. The last meal thing is always interesting. I'd want a couple hookers and some good party favors.https://www.ranker.com/list/most-elaborate-death-row-final-meals/john-barryman (https://www.ranker.com/list/most-elaborate-death-row-final-meals/john-barryman)

"I did not get my SpaghettiOs, I got spaghetti. I want the press to know this."

He wanted it served room temp out of a can. I think I'd like to have the All Star Breakfast with a side of hash browns from Waffle House and a pack of Camels. I haven't smoked ciggerets in 30 years but what the hell.

I'm with you on the camels. Quit smoking when I was in college but damn I would walk a mile got a camel 😂

Quote from: greg on April 21, 2022, 06:02:35 AMI'm with you on the camels. Quit smoking when I was in college but damn I would walk a mile got a camel 😂

"When I get to heaven...
 I'm gonna get a cocktail
Vodka and ginger ale
Yeah, I'm gonna smoke a cigarette that's nine miles long
I'm gonna kiss that pretty girl
on the tilt-a-whirl
'Cause this old man is goin' to town" ~~ John Prine

I agree with Phil's statement.  But honestly, I feel like most of the people on death row wrongly were from the 80's and 90's when court systems were more racist and just wanted to bring someone up on the charges and it didn't matter who it was.  I'm assuming with advancements in forensics that this sort of issue is becoming less and less.  I'd like to see some statistics though to back up my assumption.

That said, there are some heinous unfixable people in this world that are flat out evil and demented.  I believe the death penalty services a purpose for people like this.  People can harden their hearts past the point of return and show no remorse for the gruesome acts they committed.  I think the death penalty should be set aside for the unremorseful heinous crimes and for the most part today, I think that is the case.

Quote from: Big J on April 21, 2022, 08:44:01 AMthere are some heinous unfixable people in this world that are flat out evil and demented.  I believe the death penalty services a purpose for people like this

Truth
 

Facts and Figures

• Police-induced false confessions are among the leading causes of wrongful convictions.
• Since the late 1980s, six studies alone have documented approximately 250 interrogation-induced false confessions.
• In Bedau and Radelet's 1987 study, false confessions were the third leading cause of wrongful conviction; In Warden's 2003 study they were the single leading cause.
• Police-induced false confessions appear to occur primarily in the more serious cases, especially homicides and other high-profile felonies.
• More than 80 percent of the 125 false confessions documented by Professors Steve Drizin and Richard Leo occurred in homicide cases.
• False confessions make for the leading cause of wrongful convictions in homicide cases.
• More than two-thirds of the DNA-cleared homicide cases documented by the Innocence Project were caused by false confessions.
• There have been 317 post-conviction DNA exonerations in the United States.
• Exonerations have been won in 38 states; since 2000, there have been 250 exonerations.
• In about 30% of DNA exoneration cases, innocent defendants made incriminating statements, delivered outright confessions or pled guilty.
• 18 of the 258 people exonerated through DNA served time on death row.
• The average length of time served by exonerates is 13.5 years.
• The average age of exonerees at the time of their wrongful convictions is 27.
• 92% of false confessors are men.

https://falseconfessions.org/false-confessions-happen/

https://youtu.be/obCNQ0xksZ4

Quote from: Phil on April 21, 2022, 08:23:19 AM

Quote from: greg on April 21, 2022, 06:02:35 AMI'm with you on the camels. Quit smoking when I was in college but damn I would walk a mile got a camel 😂

gotta love John Prine. Saw him in Asheville the year before he died.

"When I get to heaven...
 I'm gonna get a cocktail
Vodka and ginger ale
Yeah, I'm gonna smoke a cigarette that's nine miles long
I'm gonna kiss that pretty girl
on the tilt-a-whirl
'Cause this old man is goin' to town" ~~ John Prine

Quote from: Big J on April 21, 2022, 08:44:01 AMI agree with Phil's statement.  But honestly, I feel like most of the people on death row wrongly were from the 80's and 90's when court systems were more racist and just wanted to bring someone up on the charges and it didn't matter who it was.  I'm assuming with advancements in forensics that this sort of issue is becoming less and less.  I'd like to see some statistics though to back up my assumption.

That said, there are some heinous unfixable people in this world that are flat out evil and demented.  I believe the death penalty services a purpose for people like this.  People can harden their hearts past the point of return and show no remorse for the gruesome acts they committed.  I think the death penalty should be set aside for the unremorseful heinous crimes and for the most part today, I think that is the case.

I agree with ya on everything except the parts I bolded, J. I fear that things haven't really changed that much.

I struggle with death penalty. For the most part I'm against it. I don't think taking a life is right. On the other hand people like Dylan Roof (think I have name right) deserve to die. The case in SC with the firing squad was a robbery that turned to murder. Guy robbing convince store was unarmed. A fight broke out and he got gun and killed clerk. Does he deserve to die or get life in prison? all I know is i don't  want to be the one making that decision. Victims family deserves justice but is taking another life the right punishment? Like I say glad I'm not the one making the decision.

Like Greg, I am glad I don't have to decide on the punishment of death. 

What does bother me is the tallier of the survey.  It says, "Total Members Voted: 4", but I see 2, 3, 2, and 1 vote(s) for the four choices.  What the heck am I missing?

I worked for a guy for two summers during my time at VT. Tree service. Death defying chain saw work.
He was a weird dude. Very Christian.
He could not drive the bucket truck down the road and talking without looking at you in the passenger seat.
I was always fixed on the road. He asked me one day what was wrong. "Somebody has to watch the road, Neal!"
His wife Faith left him one day and took their girl and boy.
He tracked her down a few years later and drowned her in her bathtub in front of their son.
Got life in prison. I would have been OK with death. Premeditated, in front of his child!
Son testified against him. Still in prison. Up for parole a few times, denied.
He fucked up his family, his wife's family, trusted members of his church and community.
Life or death?

The cost to prosecute and keep a death row inmate is staggering. I agree some people are iredeameable pices of shit. Personally I think we need to make their existence hell on earth. The though of isolation and hard labor until the day I dropped dead is chilling. NC is one of the top states with people on death row and we haven't pulled the plug on anyone in almost 20 years.
https://ncpolicywatch.com/2021/06/21/monday-numbers-new-study-on-death-penalty-shows-its-expensive-racially-disproportionate-and-unpopular/#:~:text=North%20Carolina%20a%20leading%20state%20in%20death%20penalty,%28724%29%2C%20Florida%20%28340%29%2C%20Texas%20%28216%29%20and%20Alabama%20%28175%29 (https://ncpolicywatch.com/2021/06/21/monday-numbers-new-study-on-death-penalty-shows-its-expensive-racially-disproportionate-and-unpopular/#:~:text=North%20Carolina%20a%20leading%20state%20in%20death%20penalty,%28724%29%2C%20Florida%20%28340%29%2C%20Texas%20%28216%29%20and%20Alabama%20%28175%29)

Quote from: Dougfish on April 21, 2022, 18:12:41 PMI worked for a guy for two summers during my time at VT. Tree service. Death defying chain saw work.
He was a weird dude. Very Christian.
He could not drive the bucket truck down the road and talking without looking at you in the passenger seat.
I was always fixed on the road. He asked me one day what was wrong. "Somebody has to watch the road, Neal!"
His wife Faith left him one day and took their girl and boy.
He tracked her down a few years later and drowned her in her bathtub in front of their son.
Got life in prison. I would have been OK with death. Premeditated, in front of his child!
Son testified against him. Still in prison. Up for parole a few times, denied.
He fucked up his family, his wife's family, trusted members of his church and community.
Life or death?

Death would be fine by me, however, for many crimes, I think death is too fast, too easy. Bring on the cruel and unusual punishments for those that deserve such.

Quote from: Dougfish on April 21, 2022, 18:12:41 PMI worked for a guy for two summers during my time at VT. Tree service. Death defying chain saw work.
He was a weird dude. Very Christian.
He could not drive the bucket truck down the road and talking without looking at you in the passenger seat.
I was always fixed on the road. He asked me one day what was wrong. "Somebody has to watch the road, Neal!"
His wife Faith left him one day and took their girl and boy.
He tracked her down a few years later and drowned her in her bathtub in front of their son.
Got life in prison. I would have been OK with death. Premeditated, in front of his child!
Son testified against him. Still in prison. Up for parole a few times, denied.
He fucked up his family, his wife's family, trusted members of his church and community.
Life or death?

The laws of the land, and the sentencing guidelines in the Sentencing Guidebook, are symbols of collective determination and strength. Our feelings and emotions have zero relevance.  When American society strays from collective strength (law and order) and embrace our own self importance and narcissism, said society will end up being a basket of rotten fruit. The BLM riots, Antifa, Jan 6 insurrection, and the ripping/tearing/destruction of public education are results of self righteousness of those who think they're wiser and smarter than the guy standing next to them. Just say no to this shitty rabbit hole temptation.

I would consult the most current manual
https://www.ussc.gov/policymaking

Apparently Tennessee is having some problems acquiring the drugs to complete a scheduled execution and have stayed that temporarily


https://apple.news/AuuBvc6GDSBWiKAMhIcb8HQ

There has been a movement among the drug companies for several years to ban the use of their drugs in executions. I know there are many drugs that will kill you but I think the key is thay don't want to see the person kicking and screaming while they die. The main drug used was previously manufactured in NC. I remember when NC use to gas everyone.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/will-pharmaceutical-companies-kill-death-penalty (https://www.healthline.com/health-news/will-pharmaceutical-companies-kill-death-penalty)

I am very much for the death penalty in cases where there is no reasonable question of guilt. I say bring back the public gallows. Add repeat burglary to the list of capital offenses. And instead of keeping them up in prison for thirty years before execution, do it within a week of the trial.

Why don't they just use fentanyl?

Quote from: Phil on April 23, 2022, 14:46:28 PMWhy don't they just use fentanyl?

I often wondered about opioids, but as it turns out there are people who have adverse reactions and would have a horrific death from an overdose of opioids,

QuoteFrom a medical standpoint, opioids can cause vomiting, which would force the execution to be delayed as allowing a person to violently regurgitate while they're being killed would be considered cruel and unusual punishment.

but while searching for that info I came across this....

Fentanyl is So Deadly It's Now Being Used During Death Penalty Executions in Nevada

https://www.northpointseattle.com/blog/fentanyl-deadly-now-used-death-penalty-executions-nevada/


and I assume you could get a good steady supply from all of it that has been confiscated..

There are lots of drugs you could use that will kill you. But the state needs something that will keep you from flopping around like a fish out of water so it appears humane. That's where the combination of drugs comes in with the use of some type of paralitic being one of them. The type of drug that's used in general anesthesia to keep you still while they operate on you.
https://www.the-sun.com/news/1950001/death-row-lethal-injection-drugs-death-penalty/ (https://www.the-sun.com/news/1950001/death-row-lethal-injection-drugs-death-penalty/)

Second South Carolina execution on hold after court halts firing squad plan

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-04-23/second-south-carolina-execution-on-hold-court-halts-firing-squad/101010892

>>>Gov. Bill Lee paused executions in Tennessee for the rest of the year on Monday to enable a review of its lethal injection procedures after a testing oversight forced the state to call off the execution of Oscar Smith an hour before he was to die.

>>>Former U.S. Attorney Ed Stanton will review circumstances that led to the chemicals being tested only for potency and sterility but not for endotoxins in Smith's case. He'll also review the clarity of the lethal injection process manual and Tennessee Department of Correction staffing considerations, Lee said in a statement.

>>>"Governor Lee's decision to pause executions pending an independent review of Tennessee's lethal injection protocol shows great leadership. The use of compounded drugs in the context of lethal injection is fraught with risk. The failure to test for endotoxins is a violation of the protocol. Governor Lee did the right thing by stopping executions because of this breach," Federal Public Defender Kelley Henry said.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/tennessee-pauses-executions-will-review-lethal-injections/ar-AAWQ5hw?ocid=BingNews


en·do·tox·in (en-dō-tok'sin),
1. A bacterial toxin not freely liberated into the surrounding medium, in contrast to exotoxin.
2. The complex phospholipid-polysaccharide macromolecules that form an integral part of the outer membrane of a variety of relatively avirulent as well as virulent strains of gram-negative bacteria. The toxins are relatively heat stable, are less potent than most exotoxins, are less specific, and do not form toxoids; on injection, they may cause a state of shock and, in smaller doses, fever and leukopenia followed by leukocytosis; they have the capacity of eliciting the Shwartzman and the Sanarelli-Shwartzman phenomena.
Synonym(s): intracellular toxin

Saudi Arabia has executed 12 people in 10 days for drug offences after a two-year hiatus, according to a human rights organization.


The spate of executions - most of which are beheadings with a sword - is part of a wider trend that suggests the country is on track for a record year of executions despite Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman previously vowing to reduce the use of such punishments.

The defendants, all males, were sentenced to death after being imprisoned on non-violent drug charges. Three were Pakistani, four Syrian, two Jordanian and three Saudi. Another man from Jordan is believed to have been transferred to the wing for executions on Friday.

That brings the total number of people executed this year to at least 132, exceeding those of 2020 and 2021 combined.

---

In other news... (my bold)

Three death row prisoners executed over two days in the US


Three men have been executed in the past two days in the US, one each in Texas, Arizona and Oklahoma. All died by lethal injection. From their convictions to their executions, the condemned men combined spent over a century on death row. This killing spree brings the number of death row inmates executed in 2022 to 16.

>>>The three executions in America came in the same week that the emirate of Kuwait put seven people to death in a mass execution, despite appeals from human rights organizations for clemency.

The prisoners hanged on Wednesday were four Kuwaitis, a Pakistani, a Syrian and an Ethiopian. Two of the seven were women. Kuwait introduced the death penalty in the mid-1960s and since then has executed dozens of people, mainly those convicted of murder or drug trafficking.

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/11/18/ymet-n18.html


Wikipedia 16 executions in the United States this year so far...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_people_executed_in_the_United_States_in_2022

IDK about the Murray Hooper story, but

"Richard Fairchild was convicted of the 1993 killing of his girlfriend's three-year-old son Adam Broomhall. Prosecutors say Fairchild, an ex-Marine, held the child's body against a hot furnace, then threw him onto a table, after the boy wet the bed"

"Stephen Barbee, 57, was convicted and sentenced to death in Texas for the 2005 suffocation deaths of his pregnant ex-girlfriend Lisa Underwood, 34, and her seven-year-old son."

Anything involving abuse and murder of children I'm not losing any sleep over.

Quote from: Big J on November 21, 2022, 13:04:21 PMIDK about the Murray Hooper story, but

"Richard Fairchild was convicted of the 1993 killing of his girlfriend's three-year-old son Adam Broomhall. Prosecutors say Fairchild, an ex-Marine, held the child's body against a hot furnace, then threw him onto a table, after the boy wet the bed"

"Stephen Barbee, 57, was convicted and sentenced to death in Texas for the 2005 suffocation deaths of his pregnant ex-girlfriend Lisaall I can say is hell is too good for those bastards.  Underwood, 34, and her seven-year-old son."

Anything involving abuse and murder of children I'm not losing any sleep over.

all o can say is hell is too good for those bastards

Here's what's in Virginia's secret execution files

https://www.npr.org/2023/05/11/1174343605/virginia-hid-execution-files-from-the-public-heres-what-they-dont-want-you-to-se

Tonight!

Alabama plans first nitrogen gas execution after failed lethal injection

When Kenneth Eugene Smith enters the death chamber at the William C. Holman Correctional Facility in Atmore, Ala., on Thursday night, he will be in a place that is at once familiar and entirely unknown.

Smith, 58, is expected to be placed on the same gurney that was used 14 months earlier, when he survived a botched lethal injection that was eventually called off because his death warrant was expiring and prison workers failed to set his IV line. But instead of being administered lethal drugs, prison workers will place a mask over his face and start the process of making Smith the first person executed by an untested method that uses nitrogen gas to force death by oxygen deprivation, a process known as nitrogen hypoxia.

https://wapo.st/42eD3xD

A botched execution at age 65 is a better deal than living past 90 years.  Lord, I hope I die no later than age 85.

An example of life at age 91.

An acute case of shingles.  Sores in eye sockets, followed by
Post herpetic neuralgia.  This affliction is no joke. It is horrible.
Numerous mini strokes
Broken leg
Major stroke
pneumonia
acute respiratory failure
dementia

This all happened to my MIL in the last 9 months.

The use of medical intervention used in an inappropriate manner to extend life (living hell, pain, misery, despair) has become a religious ritual that is far more cruel than an execution.

No apologies for the rant.

Poll numbers don't seem to reflect the number of members voting. 🤔

I am opposed to the death penalty, but if it must be, I think the all knowing pro-life members of our duly elected legislature should decide on the how.
With all the guns and apparent hate in our society, I'm betting a firing squad posse of gun slingers could be round up on a moment's notice.

Quote from: trout-r-us on January 26, 2024, 06:22:36 AMPoll numbers don't seem to reflect the number of members voting. 🤔

I am opposed to the death penalty, but if it must be, I think the all knowing pro-life members of our duly elected legislature should decide on the how.
With all the guns and apparent hate in our society, I'm betting a firing squad posse of gun slingers could be round up on a moment's notice.

Polls rarely "reflect" anything.

I recently took a poll and found out
100% of campers were angry when their tent collapsed.

I vote death penalty by waxed cotton.

Quote from: Trout Maharishi on April 20, 2022, 19:07:03 PMI'm all for doing away with the death penalty. Killing is wrong, it doesn't matter if it's one man doing it to another or the state doing it to a criminal. I never though the death penalty was much of a deterrent. The last meal thing is always interesting. I'd want a couple hookers and some good party favors.https://www.ranker.com/list/most-elaborate-death-row-final-meals/john-barryman (https://www.ranker.com/list/most-elaborate-death-row-final-meals/john-barryman)

In 2004, I served as a witness to a lethal injection at Central Prison in Raleigh, NC.  The inmate was a man named Sammy Crystal Perkins.  He had raped and killed a little girl.  There is no mitigating his crime.   Absolutely cruel and horrendous.

Watching the state kill him, though, was such a surreal, emotional, incredible experience that it convinced me to oppose capital punishment. It didn't really solve the problem.  I am not sure it was justice.  I just don't know.  I can imagine that keeping him alive, but in a very confined way so that his rights and abilities are even more restricted than they would be even in a prison, might be better.  But, again, I am not certain.   I will also say this, I had a river of cold sweat dripping down my back as I watched everything.  Perkins was no more than 6 feet away from me.  The witness chamber is a very, very small room--hardly bigger than a walk-in closet.  There were about 15-16 people in there; law enforcement witnesses, family members, and media.  There were two rows of chairs, and media were standing behind us.  I remember that David Crabtree from WRAL was there.  It was very crowded and no talking was allowed.  It was dark.

Having said that, as witnesses, we did get a very good education on the history of capital punishment in NC, including a list of all the "Last Meals" served to the condemned inmates.   One meal struck me as funny, a prisoner had 6 hotdogs and a diet coke...my immediate thought was, "Hey, why the DIET coke??  There's no need to worry about calories, now!!"   :cheers