Pretentious Snobby Bastard Fly Fishing!

Fly Fishing BS => The Gravel Bar => Topic started by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 10:43:49 AM

Title: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 10:43:49 AM
I'll start.

If someone, a stranger, tells you there's been an amazing late evening hatch of Pale Evening Duns at your local hotspot, how would you interpret and prepare?  What questions would you ask this bearer of potential great news to determine if he or she was indeed knowledgeable?  Or do you really care; it is a hatch and that is all the info you need.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: The Dude on September 30, 2020, 10:56:04 AM
The answer is always: Show up to the stream with Para Adams in sizes 12, 14, 16, and 18.

But, to be honest, I've always felt that emergers are the way to go during a mayfly hatch.

Full disclosure, very rarely have I fished a prolific evening mayfly hatch.  They don't really happen on most of the small, higher elevation wild streams I fish, and I'm usually on the road driving back home while they are happening anyway.  So I am a total amateur when it comes to that style of fishing. 

Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Aka on September 30, 2020, 11:03:52 AM
The correct response is: "Hey there feller, you're not from 'round these parts are you? How's about you get your fancy rig back in your shiny pick up truck and go on get back to Nancy Pelosi land". Said under breath while looking for anything in the fly box that is light enough to work, "pale eavning duns' my ass, them's cahills you stupid sonbitch".
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Big J on September 30, 2020, 11:24:24 AM
Is it yellow?
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 11:26:14 AM
Dude, I can respect your 'go-to' Adams parachute!  I have an entire box of Adams – located somewhere.  I can locate my new cheap Noodle golf balls but have no idea of where some of my fishing gear is located.  Damn, I am screwed up!!

My response to this particular scenario has changed over the years.
 
In the younger years (~25-45 years old) I would have immediately warmed to the good news and its deliverer.   I would have questioned the specific color of the duns' thorax, wings, and abdomen, the exact time of the emergence, the rise forms (emergers, high riding duns, etc.) and an estimate of numbers.  I would have inquired on their use of the common name Pale Evening Dun, what species of Ephemerella it represented, and broached the 1935 writing of Preston Jennings (A BOOK OF TROUT FLIES).  If he or she was familiar with Jennings, depending on their gender, I would have offered a reach-around or a gentle boobie massage. 

Now, I would simply reply with "Interesting".  And sulk off, remembering all those wonderful evenings of fishing the PED hatch. 
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Dougfish on September 30, 2020, 12:03:14 PM
Quote from: Aka on September 30, 2020, 11:03:52 AM"Hey there feller, you're not from 'round these parts are you? How's about you get your fancy rig back in your shiny pick up truck and go on get back to Nancy Pelosi land".

I resemble this remark.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: itieuglyflies on September 30, 2020, 14:16:59 PM
My response to this stranger might be "Did you by any chance leave a nice pile of rocks in the stream to mark the spot?"
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 14:57:19 PM
I really like the responses, but it is apparent that you guys really could give 2 shits about common names.  Shit fire and save matches, neither do I, but I used to be obsessed.  Used to stubbornly preach on labeling the hatch by the first common name assigned in the angling literature.  I never convinced anyone of the value of the practice.     
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Yallerhammer on September 30, 2020, 15:04:26 PM
I'd just tie on something yaller.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Big J on September 30, 2020, 15:17:11 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 14:57:19 PMI really like the responses, but it is apparent that you guys really could give 2 shits about common names.  Shit fire and save matches, neither do I, but I used to be obsessed.  Used to stubbornly preach on labeling the hatch by the first common name assigned in the angling literature.  I never convinced anyone of the value of the practice.     

You sound like someone who would of enjoyed guiding.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 15:26:09 PM
Quote from: Big J on September 30, 2020, 15:17:11 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 14:57:19 PMI really like the responses, but it is apparent that you guys really could give 2 shits about common names.  Shit fire and save matches, neither do I, but I used to be obsessed.  Used to stubbornly preach on labeling the hatch by the first common name assigned in the angling literature.  I never convinced anyone of the value of the practice.   

You sound like someone who would of enjoyed guiding.

Don't go there, you peckerwood!  You know good and well that guiding was, for me, pure hell!

Back when I was not a dick and used to communicate often with other hatch-hunting anglers, the connection on what I thought were correct common names was very important to me.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Woolly Bugger on September 30, 2020, 17:42:45 PM
yeah when Rhody and I were out on the madison one evening some old geeser, not unlink Mudwall, offered up the hatches of the day in latin... we nodded  politely and then, after he left, tied on an Elk Hair Caddis and slayed the fish.. 

Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 18:32:12 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on September 30, 2020, 17:42:45 PMyeah when Rhody and I were out on the madison one evening some old geeser, not unlink Mudwall, offered up the hatches of the day in latin... we nodded  politely and then, after he left, tied on an Elk Hair Caddis and slayed the fish.. 



Yes, very common experience, particularly out west, where in my experience the fishes seem less picky.

My examples:

1. Biggest rainbow I caught on the flats of Henry's Fork was on a black beetle during a mayfly hatch
2. No trout were caught on DePuy spring creek during a PMD hatch until I tied on one of Harry Steeves' monstrosities – a huge black UFO
3. In prep for my first trip to a fork of the Little Laramie I studied every hatch chart for the area I could find.  No hatch when we arrived so caught a few very small browns on an Adams.  Discouraged I decided to try a sized 12 Royal Coachman.  Bingo!  Biggest browns in the stream loved this fly.  No freaking idea why and it pissed me off.  The next year we were prepared with what I would call off-the-wall patterns – Royal Wulffs, big Humpys, Steeves' Los Alamos ants, and even a huge pink foam abomination (purchased on-line, pic below) we called the Tampon fly.  All these patterns worked great.

Now on the eastern tailwaters I have fished, matching the hatch was more in demand.  At least for me, back when I was fanatical with collecting, IDing, common names, and trying to perfectly mimic.  Those days have long passed.  Now I am more than satisfied with a nice fat squirming worm on a sized 8 eagle claw.   

I would never have provided valid info to you, Rhody, or any other swinging dick.  I might have lied my ass off, like we used to do on the spillway reach of the Jackson tailwater.  Back when we were experimenting with the patterns for black fly larvae, emerging adults, and adult dries, we were successful, and patterns were very fruitful.  Tons of fish caught without moving more than a few meters and the lie to observers was always the same, "small PT nymph, that's what we're using".  The untruth worked so well that the dude running the Bait Place downstream sold out of PT nymphs.  I am glad there is no hell for me to go to.

I did communicate with other anglers, but never strangers drinking pretentious brews, or driving sporty vehicles with out-of-state tags
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Al on September 30, 2020, 20:00:19 PM
If you're not fishing an Allieworm backed up by a zebra midge under it - all suspended by a Simulator or yarn indicator you're probably not a serious trout fisherman.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: troutrus on October 01, 2020, 05:31:45 AM
I would disregard the stranger on the assumption that she or he is full of shit as are most anglers.
I would then rig up with an AP nymph or one of Al's Allieworms under a bobber, and hope for the best.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: The Dude on October 01, 2020, 06:10:39 AM
Anyone who has ever asked me for knowledge has been fed misinformation.

#playerhater
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Phil on October 01, 2020, 06:33:43 AM
"1. Biggest rainbow I caught on the flats of Henry's Fork was on a black beetle during a mayfly hatch

2. No trout were caught on DePuy spring creek during a PMD hatch until I tied on one of Harry Steeves' monstrosities – a huge black UFO"

Spring creek/famous river hard-fished trout out west aren't less picky, they just get tired of counting the # of tails on imitations imo. I had the same experience on DePuy's spring creek the one time I fished there. Nobody was catching much on #18 PMD's in the middle of a hatch. I got tired of it and tied on a #8 foam beetle and started hammering fish. One of the guides left his client, walked over, and asked me what PMD pattern I was using, I held up my big dripping beetle, and he turned away with a disgusted look. Of course, I saw him opening and rooting through his chest pack when he got back to his client.

Freestone streams around here -- I tie on a yaller fly or a thunderhead. Tailwaters -- I suck at fishing anyway so it doesn't matter much.  :P
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: hcrum87hc on October 01, 2020, 07:44:28 AM
Honestly, most of my fishing is done on small/medium blue lines, typically of the native variety. 90% of my fish are caught on PA, Stimulators, and EHC with Pheasant Tails and Hares Ears droppers.  It's what I enjoy, and it works for me.

Of course, my knowledge of bug life has been hampered by this fishing style.  It certainly has hasn't helped my productivity on larger/deeper water.  Then again, I can always just hit some DH water and throw whatever looks good and get results.   :drum
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Onslow on October 01, 2020, 08:30:23 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 10:43:49 AMI'll start.

If someone, a stranger, tells you there's been an amazing late evening hatch of Pale Evening Duns at your local hotspot, how would you interpret and prepare?  What questions would you ask this bearer of potential great news to determine if he or she was indeed knowledgeable?  Or do you really care; it is a hatch and that is all the info you need.


I cared about hatches when I was  15 years of age, reading books about flyfishing.  If someone were to provide with intel regarding a fly hatch, I would politely smile, and plan to avoid said hatch.

I value control.  Fly hatches minimize my control over my fishing experience. That is also why I generally fish alone.

 

Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Phil on October 01, 2020, 08:38:15 AM
"I value control.  Fly hatches minimize my control over my fishing experience. That is also why I generally fish alone."

That's a strange way to put it, but -- ummmm, --- OK, then....  :o
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 01, 2020, 09:19:06 AM
Quote from: Onslow on October 01, 2020, 08:30:23 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on September 30, 2020, 10:43:49 AMI'll start.

If someone, a stranger, tells you there's been an amazing late evening hatch of Pale Evening Duns at your local hotspot, how would you interpret and prepare?  What questions would you ask this bearer of potential great news to determine if he or she was indeed knowledgeable?  Or do you really care; it is a hatch and that is all the info you need.


I cared about hatches when I was  15 years of age, reading books about flyfishing.  If someone were to provide with intel regarding a fly hatch, I would politely smile, and plan to avoid said hatch.

I value control.  Fly hatches minimize my control over my fishing experience. That is also why I generally fish alone.

 



I value control as well.  Just ask the Mrs. about my fear of flying, and my anxiety attack years ago when I discovered on a flight returning from Alaska that the pilot was female, which was one of my weakest moments.  The fear of lack of control can be a bitch!

For me, knowing things by their correct name, how they operated, and what made them tick (hatches, common names, scientific names, life cycles, natural functions, interaction with others in the environment, etc.) were important to me.  I wanted more control.

I am surprised you seek control, I believe, through experimentation and acquiring knowledge, for your bees, garden, etc., but not the hatches on your favorite waters.  Perhaps your only measure of success in fly angling is the number and size of the fish you catch. 

Ken, we have more in common than you would think.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Yallerhammer on October 01, 2020, 10:54:57 AM
I just don't really understand the fascination with hatches. Everything you read and hear about fly fishing, the word "hatch" is in every sentence, seemingly, and people don't even want to fish when there isn't a hatch.

To be honest, in forty years or so of fly fishing, I have only encountered what I would call a "hatch" a handful of times, usually just before dark. I see all these hatch charts and flies to match them for the Smokies and my area. I just usually never see these hatches. I see a bug flying around here and there, but often as not, five bugs I see in an hour are five different kinds. If I waited until I saw a hatch before fishing, I'd probably only fish once  a year.

Over the years, I have figured out about a dozen and change flies that usually always work for me. Partly old traditional flies, ones I've come up with myself, and a few newer ones. I mostly use those. And often seem to catch more fish than the folks who worry about the hatch charts and pattern selections and keeping up with the latest hot fly.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 01, 2020, 13:14:38 PM
Interesting discussion and some valid observations of insect emergence.   

I no longer give a damn about understanding or fishing "the hatch", but there was a time when the pursuit was very appealing to me.  In fact, the first trout caught on a dry when I was a kid, and having no clue of what just happened, steered me in a direction where I could make a living.

I'll bore you and may have told you before.  Opening day of trout season on Back Creek, I saw what I thought was a flying ant.  The stockers were taking them from the surface.  A greased Grey Hackle Peacock, purchased in pairs by my late father from the Marlinton WV Western Auto, was the answer.  Only later, perhaps in high school or maybe in early college, did I learn the flying ants were actually the last hatching individuals of something called a winter stonefly.  I was hooked, no pun intended.
 
While studying fish, in hopes of one day managing a trout hatchery (my boyhood dream), I eventually migrated to an overwhelming fascination in aquatic invertebrates.  My first college grade of an A was in Aquatic Entomology, and instilled a confidence in this hill hayseed, with one leg shorter than the other.  I never looked back, and the professor of that aquatic ent course later hired me.  We worked together for over 30 years and never had a misunderstanding.  I still credit his class and what he observed in me, that I could not see myself, for my fate.  I've told him and others that if I had not taken that class under his tutelage, likely I would have ended back in mountains of Bath, married to a gal named Bertha, had a passel of kids, and living in a trailer.  I am one lucky sons-a-bitch!

Chasing hatches or not, fishing is a hoot.
 
Now someone tell me how to hit a damned fairway wood from the short stuff with consistency.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Yallerhammer on October 01, 2020, 17:19:49 PM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 01, 2020, 13:14:38 PMInteresting discussion and some valid observations of insect emergence.   

I no longer give a damn about understanding or fishing "the hatch", but there was a time when the pursuit was very appealing to me.  In fact, the first trout caught on a dry when I was a kid, and having no clue of what just happened, steered me in a direction where I could make a living.

I'll bore you and may have told you before.  Opening day of trout season on Back Creek, I saw what I thought was a flying ant.  The stockers were taking them from the surface.  A greased Grey Hackle Peacock, purchased in pairs by my late father from the Marlinton WV Western Auto, was the answer.  Only later, perhaps in high school or maybe in early college, did I learn the flying ants were actually the last hatching individuals of something called a winter stonefly.  I was hooked, no pun intended.
 
While studying fish, in hopes of one day managing a trout hatchery (my boyhood dream), I eventually migrated to an overwhelming fascination in aquatic invertebrates.  My first college grade of an A was in Aquatic Entomology, and instilled a confidence in this hill hayseed, with one leg shorter than the other.  I never looked back, and the professor of that aquatic ent course later hired me.  We worked together for over 30 years and never had a misunderstanding.  I still credit his class and what he observed in me, that I could not see myself, for my fate.  I've told him and others that if I had not taken that class under his tutelage, likely I would have ended back in mountains of Bath, married to a gal named Bertha, had a passel of kids, and living in a trailer.  I am one lucky sons-a-bitch!

Chasing hatches or not, fishing is a hoot.
 
Now someone tell me how to hit a damned fairway wood from the short stuff with consistency.

I find entomology interesting and worthwhile in itself, but I feel that trout probably don't give a fuck what the Linnaean binomial of a bug is that they think looks tasty, any more than I care what breed of cow my ribeye came from.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 01, 2020, 20:47:47 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on October 01, 2020, 17:19:49 PMI find entomology interesting and worthwhile in itself, but I feel that trout probably don't give a fuck what the Linnaean binomial of a bug is that they think looks tasty, any more than I care what breed of cow my ribeye came from.

"Probably"?  In the spirit of anthropomorphizing I am sure the trout could care less.

Even if you don't care where your ribeye comes from, Galloway beef is the best tasting.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Big J on October 02, 2020, 07:35:29 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 01, 2020, 20:47:47 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on October 01, 2020, 17:19:49 PMI find entomology interesting and worthwhile in itself, but I feel that trout probably don't give a fuck what the Linnaean binomial of a bug is that they think looks tasty, any more than I care what breed of cow my ribeye came from.

"Probably"?  In the spirit of anthropomorphizing I am sure the trout could care less.

Even if you don't care where your ribeye comes from, Galloway beef is the best tasting.

Says someone who has obviously never had Kobe Beef!
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 02, 2020, 08:41:48 AM
Quote from: Big J on October 02, 2020, 07:35:29 AMSays someone who has obviously never had Kobe Beef!

You've been had!!!

"If you are not at one of the eight certified restaurants, simply assume any Kobe beef claim is a lie,....."

https://www.bonappetit.com/entertaining-style/trends-news/article/kobe-wagyu-steak-myths
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Big J on October 02, 2020, 09:19:54 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 02, 2020, 08:41:48 AM
Quote from: Big J on October 02, 2020, 07:35:29 AMSays someone who has obviously never had Kobe Beef!

You've been had!!!

"If you are not at one of the eight certified restaurants, simply assume any Kobe beef claim is a lie,....."

https://www.bonappetit.com/entertaining-style/trends-news/article/kobe-wagyu-steak-myths

That article is from 2016. And way too Pretentious for a backwoods hays.....oh yes, you golf now. 

American Kobe Beef has made great strides since then and there is a good head going here in the States.  Japanese are pricks when it comes to their food and prices, so any chance of having decent supply of Wagyu is going to come from the American Kobe Beef taking off.  Marbling on the American Kobe might not be Japanese A5 meat, but it certainly is better than most USDA Prime grade meat.
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on October 02, 2020, 09:31:51 AM
Quote from: Big J on October 02, 2020, 09:19:54 AMThat article is from 2016. And way too Pretentious for a backwoods hays.....oh yes, you golf now. 


I bet others on this forum play golf but are so consumed with image they would never admit it.  Screw image --- real, internet persona, or imagined.

Now back to common names.

Would anyone like to discuss how screwed up BWO is as a common name?
Title: Re: Common names assigned by fly anglers
Post by: Aka on October 03, 2020, 18:03:14 PM
I took the fam to Tasmania this past March. My dad & I spent several weeks working out an itinerary beforehand with plans to tour the island in his sailboat & new to him used RV. We camped most places, the first of which was the central highlands where a number of hydro projects were put in decades ago and then stocked with trout. The now wild self reproducing populations produce some great fish. The first night camping on the shore of a small lake I saw a bunch of mayflies and decided to rig up and wade in. Trout the size of salmon were breaking the surface and eating flies. I tried every fly in my box but couldn't get an eat and ended up watching the biggest trout I have ever seen rise within casting distance with no hope of catching one. I had booked a guide for the next day and on the drive to the lake he planned for us to fish I asked him what I had witnessed the night before. He asked a couple of questions, how did they rise, how much of their body came out of the water etc. then told me not to feel bad, I watched a damselfly hatch and there is no way to imitate it with a fly rod. When we got to the lake and started rigging up I was asking about what flies he planned to use and he said, a brown dun. What brown dun I asked, a size 12 he said with no more specifics. That is how the rest of the day went. Brown dun, grey dun, olive dun etc. I realized they're not interested in the specific species the hatch is, if there is one, they just mimic color and size. I would have thought less of him if I hadn't caught some decent fish, but since I did I'm glad he knew his brown duns.

Taz Trout.jpg