Pretentious Snobby Bastard Fly Fishing!

Fly Fishing BS => The Gravel Bar => Topic started by: Michael Toris on May 22, 2014, 16:57:19 PM

Title: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 22, 2014, 16:57:19 PM
You've got to be fracking kidding me. If the chemicals are safe, what's the big deal. Don't give me all of that industry secrets bullshit.

http://m.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/19/1300472/-NC-Republicans-push-industry-desires-in-bill-that-would-jail-anyone-who-discloses-fracking-chemicals?detail=action

Sign here if you want

https://m.dailykos.com/campaigns/819
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: bullship on May 22, 2014, 17:37:30 PM
Hippie
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 22, 2014, 17:58:27 PM
Quote from: bullship on May 22, 2014, 17:37:30 PM
Hippie

lol
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Woolly Bugger on May 22, 2014, 19:01:42 PM
Fracking solutions are protected by trademarks or some such bullshit
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 22, 2014, 19:28:33 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on May 22, 2014, 19:01:42 PM
Fracking solutions are protected by trademarks or some such bullshit

Why don't u answer my damn text?
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Transylwader on May 22, 2014, 19:33:38 PM
Quote from: wildmttrout on May 22, 2014, 19:28:33 PM
Quote from: Woolly Bugger on May 22, 2014, 19:01:42 PM
Fracking solutions are protected by trademarks or some such bullshit

Why don't u answer my damn text?
he's too busy soliciting me.
Fracking is a clusterfuck. EPA & DWQ are sandbagging fuckers
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Aka on May 22, 2014, 22:43:14 PM
Stockpile beer so you'll have something to drink, there isn't a petition anywhere that's going to stop the steamroller in Raleigh.
This will be a long term fight, not to keep water clean but to repeal shitty laws these asshats are passing.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Transylwader on May 22, 2014, 22:58:17 PM
Quote from: AK Aaron on May 22, 2014, 22:43:14 PM
Stockpile beer so you'll have something to drink, there isn't a petition anywhere that's going to stop the steamroller in Raleigh.
This will be a long term fight, not to keep water clean but to repeal shitty laws these asshats are passing.
Feds AK, FEDs! This state is run by a collective clusterfuck conglomerate of bipartisan country golfers and some staunch ass fucking moronic libtards who have no purpose whatsoever. I fight tooth and nail with the municipality to get approvals on simple shit. Bureaucracy will be the nail in the coffin of this here shitfucksnadwicher. I'm not going to work tomorrow. I'm going fishing coz my boss is a fucking stupid yank. Praise be jah and Columbia <-;:
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Aka on May 22, 2014, 23:53:25 PM
Quote from: Transylwader on May 22, 2014, 22:58:17 PM
Quote from: AK Aaron on May 22, 2014, 22:43:14 PM
Stockpile beer so you'll have something to drink, there isn't a petition anywhere that's going to stop the steamroller in Raleigh.
This will be a long term fight, not to keep water clean but to repeal shitty laws these asshats are passing.
Feds AK, FEDs! This state is run by a collective clusterfuck conglomerate of bipartisan country golfers and some staunch ass fucking moronic libtards who have no purpose whatsoever. I fight tooth and nail with the municipality to get approvals on simple shit. Bureaucracy will be the nail in the coffin of this here shitfucksnadwicher. I'm not going to work tomorrow. I'm going fishing coz my boss is a fucking stupid yank. Praise be jah and Columbia <-;:

States rights, Mike, states rights. You've been here long enough to learn that.

This here state ain't being run by a bunch of pansy libtards, our bureaucracy is of a darker hue. I'm not too concerned with a 'bureaucracy' of shit sandwich eating hicks in some rural assed county of North Carolina (you're not the only one lucky enough to be involved with them, I get to deal with them too). You put someone in a job of understanding and decimating intricate laws and pay them $30,000 a year and look what you get. They may hold up one of our projects for a while, true. I'm more worried about the quality of water around the area I live. Oscar Blues, Sierra Nevada, Highland, Catawba, and how many other breweries that I rely on, need frack free water. I'm not going the last forty without that, it's too grim a future.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Trout Maharishi on May 23, 2014, 00:34:08 AM
I like sandwiches ;D
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: rbphoto on May 23, 2014, 06:17:27 AM
As one who is constantly searching for the etiology of words, South African vocabulary always educates me.

Quoteshitfucksnadwicher
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: benben reincarnated on May 23, 2014, 06:26:34 AM
Quote from: AK Aaron on May 22, 2014, 23:53:25 PM
Quote from: Transylwader on May 22, 2014, 22:58:17 PM
Quote from: AK Aaron on May 22, 2014, 22:43:14 PM
Stockpile beer so you'll have something to drink, there isn't a petition anywhere that's going to stop the steamroller in Raleigh.
This will be a long term fight, not to keep water clean but to repeal shitty laws these asshats are passing.
Feds AK, FEDs! This state is run by a collective clusterfuck conglomerate of bipartisan country golfers and some staunch ass fucking moronic libtards who have no purpose whatsoever. I fight tooth and nail with the municipality to get approvals on simple shit. Bureaucracy will be the nail in the coffin of this here shitfucksnadwicher. I'm not going to work tomorrow. I'm going fishing coz my boss is a fucking stupid yank. Praise be jah and Columbia <-;:

States rights, Mike, states rights. You've been here long enough to learn that.

This here state ain't being run by a bunch of pansy libtards, our bureaucracy is of a darker hue. I'm not too concerned with a 'bureaucracy' of shit sandwich eating hicks in some rural assed county of North Carolina (you're not the only one lucky enough to be involved with them, I get to deal with them too). You put someone in a job of understanding and decimating intricate laws and pay them $30,000 a year and look what you get. They may hold up one of our projects for a while, true. I'm more worried about the quality of water around the area I live. Oscar Blues, Sierra Nevada, Highland, Catawba, and how many other breweries that I rely on, need frack free water. I'm not going the last forty without that, it's too grim a future.

I've said it before, but it won't be long I suspect before counties in our neck of the wood start passing anti-fracking ordinances.  It is already preemptively happening in other parts of the country, even in areas where no exploration has even been done yet as a statement that they don't want that shit in the ground below where they live.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: The Dude on May 23, 2014, 06:53:18 AM
Quote from: benben on May 23, 2014, 06:26:34 AM
I've said it before, but it won't be long I suspect before counties in our neck of the wood start passing anti-fracking ordinances.  It is already preemptively happening in other parts of the country, even in areas where no exploration has even been done yet as a statement that they don't want that shit in the ground below where they live.

It will come down to how whether those municipalities can make enough money off of tourism to offset the greed of the gas $$$$.  The problem with Asheville is that it doesn't have any real industry aside from tourism.  At some point one county will start fracking and bringing in all kinds of revenue.  Then it will be a real test of the other ones to see whether they want to stand by and watch the other get rich or cave and whore themselves out.  Additionally, it will come down to some of the private landowners seeing other private landowners get rich for their gas rights and will they push the local govt to cave, as well (kinda hard to scrape out a living triming Christmas trees and boxwoods while the guy in the next county over can just sit there and do nothing while collecting paychecks as the gas companies are drilling on their land).  It will be interesting to see what happens.  I think that WV's coal history and the lessons learned has forever changed the landscape (figuratively and literally) to where the state and local govts will never give complete free reign to the industries, but how much they give up to placate them for the revenue is the question, IMO.  Money talks and bullshit walks. 

I couldn't find the full episode but maybe this will do the trick.  I highly suggest you find the full one and watch.  Hilarious, yet also quite informative.

http://youtu.be/mA8psc4chDc (http://youtu.be/mA8psc4chDc)
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: The Dude on May 23, 2014, 06:57:14 AM
Quote from: Trout Maharishi on May 23, 2014, 00:34:08 AM
I like sandwiches ;D

http://youtu.be/qtF5dMzAF2k (http://youtu.be/qtF5dMzAF2k)
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: benben reincarnated on May 23, 2014, 07:08:20 AM
Quote from: The Dude on May 23, 2014, 06:53:18 AM
Quote from: benben on May 23, 2014, 06:26:34 AM
I've said it before, but it won't be long I suspect before counties in our neck of the wood start passing anti-fracking ordinances.  It is already preemptively happening in other parts of the country, even in areas where no exploration has even been done yet as a statement that they don't want that shit in the ground below where they live.

It will come down to how whether those municipalities can make enough money off of tourism to offset the greed of the gas $$$$.  The problem with Asheville is that it doesn't have any real industry aside from tourism.  At some point one county will start fracking and bringing in all kinds of revenue.  Then it will be a real test of the other ones to see whether they want to stand by and watch the other get rich or cave and whore themselves out.  Additionally, it will come down to some of the private landowners seeing other private landowners get rich for their gas rights and will they push the local govt to cave, as well (kinda hard to scrape out a living triming Christmas trees and boxwoods while the guy in the next county over can just sit there and do nothing while collecting paychecks as the gas companies are drilling on their land).  It will be interesting to see what happens.  I think that WV's coal history and the lessons learned has forever changed the landscape (figuratively and literally) to where the state and local govts will never give complete free reign to the industries, but how much they give up to placate them for the revenue is the question, IMO.  Money talks and bullshit walks. 

I couldn't find the full episode but maybe this will do the trick.  I highly suggest you find the full one and watch.  Hilarious, yet also quite informative.


Could natural gas be the new meth or moonshine???  Either way, surely it can't be better than boxwoods. 
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: sanjuanwormhatch on May 23, 2014, 07:29:29 AM
A couple of things.

First: http://www.thesylvaherald.com/breaking_news/article_7323402c-e1d6-11e3-8529-001a4bcf6878.html (http://www.thesylvaherald.com/breaking_news/article_7323402c-e1d6-11e3-8529-001a4bcf6878.html)

Second: Interesting comparison to WVa.  My response would be two fold.  A) Unfortunately money talks but B) I imagine those effected most by it are more educated than the WVa'ians of the past.  Nothing against the state, I love it, but ppl are much less isolated in the day and age of the internet. 
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on May 23, 2014, 08:05:34 AM
Quote from: sanjuanwormhatch on May 23, 2014, 07:29:29 AM
A couple of things.

First: http://www.thesylvaherald.com/breaking_news/article_7323402c-e1d6-11e3-8529-001a4bcf6878.html (http://www.thesylvaherald.com/breaking_news/article_7323402c-e1d6-11e3-8529-001a4bcf6878.html)

Second: Interesting comparison to WVa.  My response would be two fold.  A) Unfortunately money talks but B) I imagine those effected most by it are more educated than the WVa'ians of the past.  Nothing against the state, I love it, but ppl are much less isolated in the day and age of the internet.

"Educated" is such a relative term.  Hopefully some have learned from previous exploitations of the Appalachians, and can apply those experiences to current situations.  BUT, with the increase in "education", concern, and awareness of the natives comes the escalated sophistication of those that might want to exploit.  I can guarantee these fracking entities are much more savvy, crafty, and devious than any big timber or coal company of the past.     

Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: benben reincarnated on May 23, 2014, 11:57:24 AM
How timely:

http://wlos.com/shared/news/features/top-stories/stories/wlos_natural-gas-exploration-wnc-16356.shtml (http://wlos.com/shared/news/features/top-stories/stories/wlos_natural-gas-exploration-wnc-16356.shtml)

Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: outdoorguy3 on May 23, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
Just wondering, are all the folks in North Dakota and all the folks that have moved there to find work.....and have found good paying jobs, being exploited?

Also wonder if anyone has actually talked to any one from the industry that actually does this type of mining  to get the "real" facts.

Ralph ;D
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Big J on May 23, 2014, 12:23:04 PM
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Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: sanjuanwormhatch on May 23, 2014, 13:22:13 PM
Quote from: outdoorguy3 on May 23, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
Just wondering, are all the folks in North Dakota and all the folks that have moved there to find work.....and have found good paying jobs, being exploited?

Also wonder if anyone has actually talked to any one from the industry that actually does this type of mining  to get the "real" facts.

Ralph ;D
I'm guessing you don't realize this whole thread is about asking them for the real facts?
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: tomato can on May 23, 2014, 14:37:56 PM
I don't understand what are the bad things about tracking?  I hear its awful but nobody ever tells me why. Oh I might get a link to the huffingtonpost or the nation or mother jones but nobody really tells me why?  Ihave plenty of friends out there in crawford county, oil city, tionesta etc....trout fishermen and they don't report any changes.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 14:50:10 PM
Quote from: tomato can on May 23, 2014, 14:37:56 PM
I don't understand what are the bad things about tracking?  I hear its awful but nobody ever tells me why. Oh I might get a link to the huffingtonpost or the nation or mother jones but nobody really tells me why?  Ihave plenty of friends out there in crawford county, oil city, tionesta etc....trout fishermen and they don't report any changes.


Fine

Ill tell you what's so bad about it.

But first I want something in return.

Go out in the yard and pick up a dog turd.
Take a bite.
Chew on it.
Swallow.
Report back.

Every one says its awful and taste like shit but no one can tell me why.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Grannyknot on May 23, 2014, 14:53:52 PM
Quote from: tomato can on May 23, 2014, 14:37:56 PM
I don't understand what are the bad things about tracking?  I hear its awful but nobody ever tells me why. Oh I might get a link to the huffingtonpost or the nation or mother jones but nobody really tells me why?  Ihave plenty of friends out there in crawford county, oil city, tionesta etc....trout fishermen and they don't report any changes.

Its all just a bunch of hullabaloo like global warming & agent orange.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Al on May 23, 2014, 15:39:40 PM
Quote from: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 14:50:10 PM
Quote from: tomato can on May 23, 2014, 14:37:56 PM
I don't understand what are the bad things about tracking?  I hear its awful but nobody ever tells me why. Oh I might get a link to the huffingtonpost or the nation or mother jones but nobody really tells me why?  Ihave plenty of friends out there in crawford county, oil city, tionesta etc....trout fishermen and they don't report any changes.


Fine

Ill tell you what's so bad about it.

But first I want something in return.

Go out in the yard and pick up a dog turd.
Take a bite.
Chew on it.
Swallow.
Report back.

Every one says its awful and taste like shit but no one can tell me why.

Legitimate question was asked and you just beat around the bush without answering it Snag b';

Our local paper just completed a six part series which was suppose to show both sides of fracking and I am still confused. Best part of the series was interviews by a couple hog and chicken farmers (factory farms with multiple houses and lagoons) They are worried the water they use for the hogs, turkeys and chickens will become contaminated and put them out of business.  They didn't say anything about the lagoons which smell like sh*t to their neighbors and are prime breeding grounds for flies and other vermin.  Seems like it depends on whose ox is being gored. 
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: tomato can on May 23, 2014, 16:17:53 PM
OH come on Troutfanatic I expect more from you. People knew the orange streams from coal mining were bad.   Snag's emotionalism I expect. If you ever get a chance Google Oil creek check out the damage from the oil industry in the 1800's its amazing that there are trout in oil creek now.  Just blows my mind. 
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: natureboy on May 23, 2014, 16:32:50 PM
My 2c.

Drilling increases traffic and puts a lot more heavy vehicles on the roads, are the DOTs and localities ready for the increase in maintenance, locals ready for the bump? 

It uses/wastes a lot of water.  That water is mixed with a toxic brew of chemicals, that isn't fully disclosed, then injected into the ground where it is further contaminated.  Lots of arguments about whether or not the water that goes down can mix with other ground water, common sense says there's a good chance.  Rural folk get most of their drinking water from groundwater, wells or springs.  If I lived nearby I certainly wouldn't want fracking within a couple miles of my well/spring.  Same thing for nearby small streams, that are mostly fed by groundwater.  In Ohio I've read they actually have waste wells where they pump the dirty water back in, these have caused some small earthquakes.  It makes no sense to me how that is allowable.

The jobs created probably aren't going to go to many locals.

The impacts on the land are pretty significant, having seen the effects from fishing in the gas fields of PA and hunting in the gas/coal fields of WY.  Lots of new roads get built equaling more sediment and generally the wells get dropped in the most convenient location, not necessarily the best spot from a conservation/habitat perspective.

Is it cleaner than coal, probably, but it's still a fossil fuel and it's really only gained favor because of its price. (aside, have your electric bills gone down any?)

To summarize, I'm not anti-drilling/fracking, I just think they need to act like they have some sense when it comes to where/how to drill and they should try to make the fracking fluid as clean/inert as possible.  I think the industry should be regulated to that effect.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: The Dude on May 23, 2014, 17:25:32 PM
There are lots of facts out there.  It is up to people to use their intelligence to find the ones which are most important.

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Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: bullship on May 23, 2014, 18:31:23 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 23, 2014, 18:01:35 PM
'mater,

I love ya like a brutha I never met but I ain't buying this fracking shit until I see otherwise. Like you, I will tell the progressives to stick their motherjo and huffo square up their asses. I will also tell Hannity listeners to suck a fat one (and I don't mean doob). I don't trust politicians of either party and I have great discontent with wealthy elites because someone is always fucked by their wealth acquisition. Once again, I submit this is opinion not fact, but my instincts are right more often than not.

X2
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 19:16:27 PM
Quote from: Al on May 23, 2014, 15:39:40 PM


Legitimate question was asked and you just beat around the bush without answering it Snag b';


Pretty sure that I wasn't beating around the bush.  But let me clarify...

If you cant figure out why pumping toxic chemicals into the ground without public oversight as to what is being used is major fucked up, and you support a bill that would strip landowners of their rights to stop this on their own property while at the same time making any local law banning fracking  null and void....

well...

eat shit.

And Im pretty sure the question in question was not at all legitimate.



Quote from: tomato can on May 23, 2014, 16:17:53 PM
  Snag's emotionalism I expect.

Long as Snag and his wife and kid drink from a 1000 foot well that pumps a 1/4 gallon a minute  you can expect lots of emotion when it comes to this topic.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: bullship on May 23, 2014, 19:29:35 PM
Quote from: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 19:16:27 PM
Long as Snag and his wife and kid drink from a 1000 foot well that pumps a 1/4 gallon a minute  you can expect lots of emotion when it comes to this topic.

Wow. That sucks. You didn't have to pay for that, did you? God,that would be a disappointing 20 grand
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 23, 2014, 19:52:13 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 23, 2014, 19:45:25 PM
links being posted by random puppet of random academic douche with no life experience to educate you.


O'rly!?!



It's pretty simple in the end. The energy/resource companies are gonna fuck ya if they can.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 23, 2014, 19:54:20 PM
Btw, we have gotten way off track.

Simple question, should one be jailed for telling the truth?
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 23, 2014, 19:58:48 PM
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Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 20:14:20 PM
Quote from: bullship on May 23, 2014, 19:29:35 PM
Quote from: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 19:16:27 PM
Long as Snag and his wife and kid drink from a 1000 foot well that pumps a 1/4 gallon a minute  you can expect lots of emotion when it comes to this topic.

Wow. That sucks. You didn't have to pay for that, did you? God,that would be a disappointing 20 grand

Came with the foreclosed home and property.

It's got 600 feet of clean water in it. Takes a long time to run out.  Never seen it dry but I don't have a lawn (even on 2 acres) or a swimming pool.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: rbphoto on May 23, 2014, 20:58:07 PM
Time to start supporting projects like this:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/solar-roadways

Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 23, 2014, 21:03:51 PM
Anything that is taken from the ground fucks up something somehow. I just fucking hate being told to eat shit and like it by those who we suppose to trust.


I've seen the government (both sides) fuck us in the little time I have spent on this earth. The worst part about it is the politicians are just the faces; it's the large organizations which are pulling the strings.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 21:15:01 PM
http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1558250/ (http://m.imdb.com/title/tt1558250/)
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 21:49:12 PM
I'll not argue your point about who made it. Though I think you are wrong.

I will say that those who are featured in it are REAL people with real problems.

Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: outdoorguy3 on May 23, 2014, 22:55:38 PM
Quote from: Dylar on May 23, 2014, 12:14:30 PM
That's right, vomit back what you heard on Hannity yesterday.  Gross.

Um, I happen to have a friend that is currently, and has been working in North Dakota, the past 4 years.  I have no idea what Mr. Hannity said yesterday.......too busy trying to pay the bills to listen to the radio.

;D
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: outdoorguy3 on May 23, 2014, 22:57:57 PM
Quote from: sanjuanwormhatch on May 23, 2014, 13:22:13 PM
Quote from: outdoorguy3 on May 23, 2014, 12:08:46 PM
Just wondering, are all the folks in North Dakota and all the folks that have moved there to find work.....and have found good paying jobs, being exploited?

Also wonder if anyone has actually talked to any one from the industry that actually does this type of mining  to get the "real" facts.

Ralph ;D
I'm guessing you don't realize this whole thread is about asking them for the real facts?


If that's the case, then why all the bashing if the real facts are unknown?

Ralph ;D


Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 23, 2014, 23:29:28 PM
The facts are not unknown Ralph. They are politicized. Thus, clouded by "biasness".

Real fact: it takes a shit ton of water to extract natural gas via fracturing. Water is what brings us all to this board. It is something we cannot make more of, nor can we find an alternative to. We fuck it up, it's gone. All of that water has to come from somewhere.

Energy, however, is something we can find alternatives. In fact, they are available to us, but some exist which do not want us to have these alternatives. These men and women are those with money invested in natural gas rather than investing efforts to protect the environment first and foremost.

Take a look at coal mining. You extract a resource from the ground and expose the "overburden". This material is then placed into hollows which streams originate from. The material is then exposed to water and oxidizes, creating a host of problems.

Oil extraction: BP gulf spill. The gulf is not back and will not be in our lifetime nor the lifetime of our grand kids. USFW biologist said it was the biggest cover up he has ever witnessed.

These are all fossil fuels which were deposited [bigj muffs on] millions [/bigj muffs off] of years ago. Same as natural gas. Why would one expect its extraction to be exempt? 

I am concerned about hydraulic fracturing;  however, I am much more concerned about what happens when it goes wrong.

The environment is not renewable. Energy is. Pretty simple in the end. It is those who "represent" us who make this issue cloudy.

I do not care about cheap energy. I care about a clean, natural environment which has the least amount of our nasty ass stank on it as possible.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Onslow on May 24, 2014, 07:03:21 AM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 23, 2014, 22:32:27 PM
Fracking is a real problem for you and me. For the political elites it is a problem as to which side controls wealth accumulation. I know I sound like a socialist. I am not. I believe in free markets. I believe you have a right to get get rich. I don't believe anyone, any corporation has the right to fuck the rest of us in the process.

We are reliving the 1880-1900 era.  Sadly there is no Teddy.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Al on May 24, 2014, 07:20:49 AM
Quote from: Phallus in Wonderland on May 24, 2014, 07:03:21 AM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 23, 2014, 22:32:27 PM
Fracking is a real problem for you and me. For the political elites it is a problem as to which side controls wealth accumulation. I know I sound like a socialist. I am not. I believe in free markets. I believe you have a right to get get rich. I don't believe anyone, any corporation has the right to fuck the rest of us in the process.

We are reliving the 1880-1900 era.  Sadly there is no Teddy.

If you want to relive the 1880-1900 era try going without energy, ie electricity. Sure there are alternatives but not in the quantity we require. We certainly need to develop solar and wind but they are novelties at this stage.  If you want to see what our future could be without electricity Google  "World Made by Hand" a book by James Howard Kunstler
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Onslow on May 24, 2014, 07:54:25 AM
What I meant was big business was corrupt and reigned supreme while the common man ate shit.  Fracking and the proprietary fracking fluids matter are two different issues.  This jailing issue is all about big biz sticking it up the little man's ass, and oppression.  The extraction of natural gas falls under the larger energy debate.

The sun is the supreme energy producer.  If humans do not have enough sense to utilize it, then I suppose we will face consequences of being stupid and lazy.  I'm too cheap and lazy to install solar panels on my house.  I suck. 
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: The Dude on May 24, 2014, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Phallus in Wonderland on May 24, 2014, 07:54:25 AM
The sun is the supreme energy producer.  If we humans not have enough sense to utilize it, then I suppose we will face consequences of being stupid and lazy.  I'm to cheap and lazy to install solar panels on my house.  I suck.

http://nationalreport.net/solar-panels-drain-suns-energy-experts-say/ (http://nationalreport.net/solar-panels-drain-suns-energy-experts-say/)

Solar Panels Drain the Sun's Energy, Experts Say


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<National Report>This week, a scientific research facility in Wyoming made a startling discovery that is certain to change the way millions of Americans look at the environmentalism movement, after they found conclusive evidence that solar panels not only convert the sun's energy into usable energy, but that they are also draining the sun of its own energy, possibly with catastrophic consequences far worse than global warming.

Scientists at the Wyoming Institute of Technology, a privately-owned think tank located in Cheyenne, Wyoming, discovered that energy radiated from the sun isn't merely captured in solar panels, but that energy is directly physically drawn from the sun by those panels, in a process they refer to as "forced photovoltaic drainage."

"Put into laymen's terms, the solar panels capture the sun's energy, but pull on the sun over time, forcing more energy to be released than the sun is actually producing," WIT claims in a scientific white paper published on Wednesday.  "Imagine a waterfall, dumping water.  But you aren't catching the water in buckets, but rather sucking it in with a vacuum cleaner.  Eventually, you're going to suck in so much water that you drain the river above that waterfall completely."

WIT is adamant that there's no immediate danger, however.  "Currently, solar panels are an energy niche, and do not pose a serious risk to the sun.  But if we converted our grids to solar energy in a big way, with panels on domestic homes and commercial businesses, and paving our parking lots with panels, we'd start seeing very serious problems over time.  If every home in the world had solar panels on their roofs, global temperatures would drop by as much as thirty degrees over twenty years, and the sun could die out within three hundred to four hundred years."

The study was commissioned in August 2011 by the Halliburton corporation, who wanted to learn if the energy giant should start manufacturing and selling solar panels domestically and internationally.  Halliburton's executives wanted to know more about the sustainability of solar energy and how photovoltaic technology might evolve over the next ten years.  But based on the findings of WIT's research in the field, Halliburton revealed on Friday that they will not be entering the solar energy market.

"Solar panels destroying the sun could potentially be the worst man-made climate disaster in the history of the world, and Halliburton will not be taking part in that," the company stated in a press release issued Friday morning.  "It's obvious, based on the findings of this neutral scientific research group, that humans needs to become more dependent on fossil fuels like oil and coal, not less.  Because these so-called `green technologies' are far more dangerous to the Earth than any hydrofracking operation or deep-water drilling station.  What good is clean air when our very sun is no longer functional?"
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Onslow on May 24, 2014, 10:13:46 AM
Quote from: The Dude on May 24, 2014, 10:06:06 AM
Quote from: Phallus in Wonderland on May 24, 2014, 07:54:25 AM
The sun is the supreme energy producer.  If we humans not have enough sense to utilize it, then I suppose we will face consequences of being stupid and lazy.  I'm to cheap and lazy to install solar panels on my house.  I suck.

http://nationalreport.net/solar-panels-drain-suns-energy-experts-say/ (http://nationalreport.net/solar-panels-drain-suns-energy-experts-say/)

Solar Panels Drain the Sun's Energy, Experts Say


Guests are not allowed to view images in posts, please Register or Login


<National Report>This week, a scientific research facility in Wyoming made a startling discovery that is certain to change the way millions of Americans look at the environmentalism movement, after they found conclusive evidence that solar panels not only convert the sun's energy into usable energy, but that they are also draining the sun of its own energy, possibly with catastrophic consequences far worse than global warming.

Scientists at the Wyoming Institute of Technology, a privately-owned think tank located in Cheyenne, Wyoming, discovered that energy radiated from the sun isn't merely captured in solar panels, but that energy is directly physically drawn from the sun by those panels, in a process they refer to as "forced photovoltaic drainage."

"Put into laymen's terms, the solar panels capture the sun's energy, but pull on the sun over time, forcing more energy to be released than the sun is actually producing," WIT claims in a scientific white paper published on Wednesday.  "Imagine a waterfall, dumping water.  But you aren't catching the water in buckets, but rather sucking it in with a vacuum cleaner.  Eventually, you're going to suck in so much water that you drain the river above that waterfall completely."

WIT is adamant that there's no immediate danger, however.  "Currently, solar panels are an energy niche, and do not pose a serious risk to the sun.  But if we converted our grids to solar energy in a big way, with panels on domestic homes and commercial businesses, and paving our parking lots with panels, we'd start seeing very serious problems over time.  If every home in the world had solar panels on their roofs, global temperatures would drop by as much as thirty degrees over twenty years, and the sun could die out within three hundred to four hundred years."

The study was commissioned in August 2011 by the Halliburton corporation, who wanted to learn if the energy giant should start manufacturing and selling solar panels domestically and internationally.  Halliburton's executives wanted to know more about the sustainability of solar energy and how photovoltaic technology might evolve over the next ten years.  But based on the findings of WIT's research in the field, Halliburton revealed on Friday that they will not be entering the solar energy market.

"Solar panels destroying the sun could potentially be the worst man-made climate disaster in the history of the world, and Halliburton will not be taking part in that," the company stated in a press release issued Friday morning.  "It's obvious, based on the findings of this neutral scientific research group, that humans needs to become more dependent on fossil fuels like oil and coal, not less.  Because these so-called `green technologies' are far more dangerous to the Earth than any hydrofracking operation or deep-water drilling station.  What good is clean air when our very sun is no longer functional?"

That is fucking hilarious. 

Lets sally forth and eradicate all green vegetation as it too may be an existential threat to the sun.  Photosynthesis is the root of all evil ;D

Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: flatlander on May 24, 2014, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: wildmttrout on May 23, 2014, 23:29:28 PM
The facts are not unknown Ralph. They are politicized. Thus, clouded by "biasness".

Fair enough, brother...but are your own biases creeping in?

Real fact: it takes a shit ton of water to extract natural gas via fracturing. Water is what brings us all to this board. It is something we cannot make more of, nor can we find an alternative to. We fuck it up, it's gone. All of that water has to come from somewhere.

OK...but how about some perspective.  Pennsylvania (Marcellus Shale Deposits) uses 9.5 billion gallons of water daily.  Natural gas development uses 1.9 million gallons per day.  Livestock use 62 million gallons per day; Mining uses 96 million gallons; and industry uses 770 million gallons per day.  From what I understand, gas development uses about the equivalent of what the missing steel industry use to use.  So yes, it's a lot of water but some context is warranted.

Energy, however, is something we can find alternatives. In fact, they are available to us, but some exist which do not want us to have these alternatives. These men and women are those with money invested in natural gas rather than investing efforts to protect the environment first and foremost.

Like what?  Solar?  Wind?  They aren't there yet G.  Your truck (or a Prius) won't run on solar or wind.  Nuclear?  That's not going to happen.  Given you wear those Patagonia loafers, I bet you don't like hydro either, do you?

Take a look at coal mining. You extract a resource from the ground and expose the "overburden". This material is then placed into hollows which streams originate from. The material is then exposed to water and oxidizes, creating a host of problems.

Natural gas

Oil extraction: BP gulf spill. The gulf is not back and will not be in our lifetime nor the lifetime of our grand kids. USFW biologist said it was the biggest cover up he has ever witnessed.

These are all fossil fuels which were deposited [bigj muffs on] millions [/bigj muffs off] of years ago. Same as natural gas. Why would one expect its extraction to be exempt? 

I am concerned about hydraulic fracturing;  however, I am much more concerned about what happens when it goes wrong. 

That's fair enough.  I have my own concerns about fracking as well.

The environment is not renewable. Energy is. Pretty simple in the end. It is those who "represent" us who make this issue cloudy.

At this moment, renewables won't get you there.  You can't store electricity overnight when the sun isn't shining or when the wind doesn't blow (not yet, anyway).  Maybe Elon Musk will figure it out with these giga factories.

I do not care about cheap energy. I care about a clean, natural environment which has the least amount of our nasty ass stank on it as possible.

YOU may not care about cheap energy, but with the left and the media (redundant?) constantly droning on about income inequality, I'll bet more than a few people will be pissed if their power bills double.   The EIA projects energy produced with gas will cost $66 per mega watt hour versus solar PV2 at $130. 

I'm not wild about the notion of fracking.  Intuitively, it doesn't seem to make sense.  However, we've been doing it for 60 years.  That said, I think you have to be realistic about the world's energy needs and realize natural gas may be our best bet until renewables are ready or we find some sort of alternative energy technology.  Just trying to interject some realism into this.  Carry on my carp kissing friend.




Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 24, 2014, 11:36:17 AM
Quote from: Flatlander on May 24, 2014, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: wildmttrout on May 23, 2014, 23:29:28 PM
The facts are not unknown Ralph. They are politicized. Thus, clouded by "biasness".

Fair enough, brother...but are your own biases creeping in?

Real fact: it takes a shit ton of water to extract natural gas via fracturing. Water is what brings us all to this board. It is something we cannot make more of, nor can we find an alternative to. We fuck it up, it's gone. All of that water has to come from somewhere.

OK...but how about some perspective.  Pennsylvania (Marcellus Shale Deposits) uses 9.5 billion gallons of water daily.  Natural gas development uses 1.9 million gallons per day.  Livestock use 62 million gallons per day; Mining uses 96 million gallons; and industry uses 770 million gallons per day.  From what I understand, gas development uses about the equivalent of what the missing steel industry use to use.  So yes, it's a lot of water but some context is warranted.

Energy, however, is something we can find alternatives. In fact, they are available to us, but some exist which do not want us to have these alternatives. These men and women are those with money invested in natural gas rather than investing efforts to protect the environment first and foremost.

Like what?  Solar?  Wind?  They aren't there yet G.  Your truck (or a Prius) won't run on solar or wind.  Nuclear?  That's not going to happen.  Given you wear those Patagonia loafers, I bet you don't like hydro either, do you?

Take a look at coal mining. You extract a resource from the ground and expose the "overburden". This material is then placed into hollows which streams originate from. The material is then exposed to water and oxidizes, creating a host of problems.

Natural gas

Oil extraction: BP gulf spill. The gulf is not back and will not be in our lifetime nor the lifetime of our grand kids. USFW biologist said it was the biggest cover up he has ever witnessed.

These are all fossil fuels which were deposited [bigj muffs on] millions [/bigj muffs off] of years ago. Same as natural gas. Why would one expect its extraction to be exempt? 

I am concerned about hydraulic fracturing;  however, I am much more concerned about what happens when it goes wrong. 

That's fair enough.  I have my own concerns about fracking as well.

The environment is not renewable. Energy is. Pretty simple in the end. It is those who "represent" us who make this issue cloudy.

At this moment, renewables won't get you there.  You can't store electricity overnight when the sun isn't shining or when the wind doesn't blow (not yet, anyway).  Maybe Elon Musk will figure it out with these giga factories.

I do not care about cheap energy. I care about a clean, natural environment which has the least amount of our nasty ass stank on it as possible.

YOU may not care about cheap energy, but with the left and the media (redundant?) constantly droning on about income inequality, I'll bet more than a few people will be pissed if their power bills double.   The EIA projects energy produced with gas will cost $66 per mega watt hour versus solar PV2 at $130. 

I'm not wild about the notion of fracking.  Intuitively, it doesn't seem to make sense.  However, we've been doing it for 60 years.  That said, I think you have to be realistic about the world's energy needs and realize natural gas may be our best bet until renewables are ready or we find some sort of alternative energy technology.  Just trying to interject some realism into this.  Carry on my carp kissing friend.





Science has no bias my man.

When are you gonna go carping with me again? I have stumbled onto greatness. ..
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Al on May 24, 2014, 12:49:30 PM
Quote from: Flatlander on May 24, 2014, 11:28:59 AM
Quote from: wildmttrout on May 23, 2014, 23:29:28 PM
The facts are not unknown Ralph. They are politicized. Thus, clouded by "biasness".

Fair enough, brother...but are your own biases creeping in?

Real fact: it takes a shit ton of water to extract natural gas via fracturing. Water is what brings us all to this board. It is something we cannot make more of, nor can we find an alternative to. We fuck it up, it's gone. All of that water has to come from somewhere.

OK...but how about some perspective.  Pennsylvania (Marcellus Shale Deposits) uses 9.5 billion gallons of water daily.  Natural gas development uses 1.9 million gallons per day.  Livestock use 62 million gallons per day; Mining uses 96 million gallons; and industry uses 770 million gallons per day.  From what I understand, gas development uses about the equivalent of what the missing steel industry use to use.  So yes, it's a lot of water but some context is warranted.

Energy, however, is something we can find alternatives. In fact, they are available to us, but some exist which do not want us to have these alternatives. These men and women are those with money invested in natural gas rather than investing efforts to protect the environment first and foremost.

Like what?  Solar?  Wind?  They aren't there yet G.  Your truck (or a Prius) won't run on solar or wind.  Nuclear?  That's not going to happen.  Given you wear those Patagonia loafers, I bet you don't like hydro either, do you?

Take a look at coal mining. You extract a resource from the ground and expose the "overburden". This material is then placed into hollows which streams originate from. The material is then exposed to water and oxidizes, creating a host of problems.

Natural gas

Oil extraction: BP gulf spill. The gulf is not back and will not be in our lifetime nor the lifetime of our grand kids. USFW biologist said it was the biggest cover up he has ever witnessed.

These are all fossil fuels which were deposited [bigj muffs on] millions [/bigj muffs off] of years ago. Same as natural gas. Why would one expect its extraction to be exempt? 

I am concerned about hydraulic fracturing;  however, I am much more concerned about what happens when it goes wrong. 

That's fair enough.  I have my own concerns about fracking as well.

The environment is not renewable. Energy is. Pretty simple in the end. It is those who "represent" us who make this issue cloudy.

At this moment, renewables won't get you there.  You can't store electricity overnight when the sun isn't shining or when the wind doesn't blow (not yet, anyway).  Maybe Elon Musk will figure it out with these giga factories.

I do not care about cheap energy. I care about a clean, natural environment which has the least amount of our nasty ass stank on it as possible.

YOU may not care about cheap energy, but with the left and the media (redundant?) constantly droning on about income inequality, I'll bet more than a few people will be pissed if their power bills double.   The EIA projects energy produced with gas will cost $66 per mega watt hour versus solar PV2 at $130. 

I'm not wild about the notion of fracking.  Intuitively, it doesn't seem to make sense.  However, we've been doing it for 60 years.  That said, I think you have to be realistic about the world's energy needs and realize natural gas may be our best bet until renewables are ready or we find some sort of alternative energy technology.  Just trying to interject some realism into this.  Carry on my carp kissing friend.



'c; 'c; 'c; Kudos to this exchange - Bold font quote (by FL I think) pretty well sums up where we are today.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 24, 2014, 13:04:29 PM
The reason we are not there yet with renewables is because the big natural resource companies are very powerful lobbyists

I wish my truck ran off of solar. That would make for more carpage

Yes, natural gas may be better than coal in many ways; however, it is nothing more than a bandaid prolonging the disease rather than a cure. More funding and research needs to go towards solar. Free energy. Wait, that is probably the problem.

Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: flatlander on May 24, 2014, 13:26:45 PM
Quote from: wildmttrout on May 24, 2014, 13:04:29 PM
The reason we are not there yet with renewables is because the big natural resource companies are very powerful lobbyists


Define "not there yet"...are you talking about totally eliminating hydro carbons?  I just don't think that's doable without nuclear and  within current technologies.  I'll agree the natural resource companies have a lot of power, but getting to where you want to go now isn't financially or politically possible.

I'm ready to give those carps a shot any time.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: benben reincarnated on May 24, 2014, 13:39:11 PM

Quote from: snagaluffaguss on May 23, 2014, 20:14:20 PM
Never seen it dry but I don't have a lawn (even on 2 acres) or a swimming pool.

We should change that.   I got a shovel and some extra grass seed.  Free water too!
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: The Dude on May 24, 2014, 15:41:24 PM
Science damn you!
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: flatlander on May 24, 2014, 15:52:37 PM
Quote from: Dylar on May 24, 2014, 15:14:58 PM
Science is the only legitimate and valid technique for knowledge production ever developed by human kind.  Only science produces real answers.

Well, if a bunch of MIT scientists say fracking is safe, then we can only accept it as the truth.  I mean, they're MIT scientists:

http://mitei.mit.edu/publications/reports-studies/future-natural-gas (http://mitei.mit.edu/publications/reports-studies/future-natural-gas)
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: flatlander on May 24, 2014, 16:51:00 PM
Quote from: Dylar on May 24, 2014, 16:02:17 PM
Quote from: Flatlander on May 24, 2014, 15:52:37 PM
Quote from: Dylar on May 24, 2014, 15:14:58 PM
Science is the only legitimate and valid technique for knowledge production ever developed by human kind.  Only science produces real answers.

Well, if a bunch of MIT scientists say fracking is safe, then we can only accept it as the truth.  I mean, they're MIT scientists:

http://mitei.mit.edu/publications/reports-studies/future-natural-gas (http://mitei.mit.edu/publications/reports-studies/future-natural-gas)

I don't think anyone but curmudgeons and lunatics believes that responsible, limited and intensely and transparently regulated natural gas extraction has no place in the future of American energy policy, but that's not what's being advocated here, now is it?

I couldn't agree more...
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Michael Toris on May 24, 2014, 19:05:19 PM
Quote from: Dylar on May 24, 2014, 16:02:17 PM
Quote from: Flatlander on May 24, 2014, 15:52:37 PM
Quote from: Dylar on May 24, 2014, 15:14:58 PM
Science is the only legitimate and valid technique for knowledge production ever developed by human kind.  Only science produces real answers.

Well, if a bunch of MIT scientists say fracking is safe, then we can only accept it as the truth.  I mean, they're MIT scientists:

http://mitei.mit.edu/publications/reports-studies/future-natural-gas (http://mitei.mit.edu/publications/reports-studies/future-natural-gas)

I don't think anyone but curmudgeons and lunatics believes that responsible, limited and intensely and transparently regulated natural gas extraction has no place in the future of American energy policy, but that's not what's being advocated here, now is it?



Right on


Somehow, this became pro-natty gas or anti-natty gas. It really doesn't matter which of these two options we want; it matters whether or not they are completely transparent.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on May 24, 2014, 22:07:44 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 24, 2014, 21:55:07 PM
Once again, politicians and media have tainted all that is good and pure in our world.

We have "tainted all that is good and pure in our world".  We have elected the politicians and we have sustained the media.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Aka on May 24, 2014, 22:26:51 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 24, 2014, 21:55:07 PM

all that is good and pure in our world.


There is nothing pure in this world and none of it is purely good.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on May 24, 2014, 22:37:51 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 24, 2014, 22:15:30 PM
All considered, I would say I am not compliant with this We you mention.

We, as in part of this screwed up human race ----this is what I meant in my late Sat. evening intoxicated condition --- We, kind of like being a part of some really dysfunctional family.   We, Homo sapiens are responsible for all our ills. 
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Aka on May 24, 2014, 22:46:32 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 24, 2014, 22:38:37 PM
agreed Aaron. But I am not the ones here plugging science as a pure truth. Seems to be a millennial thing based on the shit I read on facebook.

I blame it on Bill nye and Sid the science kid, that little fucker!
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Trout Maharishi on May 24, 2014, 22:49:39 PM
I though we were talking about sandwiches? OK, I'll play along, solar is the answer! We can get that Selenda company to put in a bunch of panels and batteries. oh wait, that's right. There was some kind of mix up there. :o
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Aka on May 24, 2014, 22:56:31 PM
Quote from: Trout Maharishi on May 24, 2014, 22:49:39 PM
I though we were talking about sandwiches? OK, I'll play along, solar is the answer! We can get that Selenda company to put in a bunch of panels and batteries. oh wait, that's right. There was some kind of mix up there. :o

If Solyndra had been an Exxon mobile subsidiary it wouldn't have been such a shit sandwich.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Trout Maharishi on May 24, 2014, 23:10:01 PM
Quote from: AK Aaron on May 24, 2014, 22:56:31 PM
Quote from: Trout Maharishi on May 24, 2014, 22:49:39 PM
I though we were talking about sandwiches? OK, I'll play along, solar is the answer! We can get that Selenda company to put in a bunch of panels and batteries. oh wait, that's right. There was some kind of mix up there. :o

If Solyndra had been an Exxon mobile subsidiary it wouldn't have been such a shit sandwich.

I knew that smell was familiar :D Plus, now you are smart enough to know there was more to it than that.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Aka on May 24, 2014, 23:25:06 PM
Quote from: Trout Maharishi on May 24, 2014, 23:10:01 PM
Quote from: AK Aaron on May 24, 2014, 22:56:31 PM
Quote from: Trout Maharishi on May 24, 2014, 22:49:39 PM
I though we were talking about sandwiches? OK, I'll play along, solar is the answer! We can get that Selenda company to put in a bunch of panels and batteries. oh wait, that's right. There was some kind of mix up there. :o

If Solyndra had been an Exxon mobile subsidiary it wouldn't have been such a shit sandwich.

I knew that smell was familiar :D Plus, now you are smart enough to know there was more to it than that.

My intelligence is questionable at best. I guess there is more to it than will ever be told but I don't think a large, well funded and well positioned company would have allowed the US government to stand by while China dumped product on the market.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: flatlander on May 25, 2014, 07:22:42 AM
Quote from: wildmttrout on May 24, 2014, 19:05:19 PM


Somehow, this became pro-natty gas or anti-natty gas. It really doesn't matter which of these two options we want; it matters whether or not they are completely transparent.

You're right.  My own biases creeping in.  I have a fundamental problem with the environmental movement as it currently stands today.  They've totally hijacked the climate change message and made a bloody mess of it.

So let's call that article out for what it is.  The point of that article is less about fracking than it is about motivating the Democratic base in NC, where Democrats are going to take a beating in November.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Onslow on May 25, 2014, 07:55:38 AM
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on May 24, 2014, 22:37:51 PM
Quote from: troutfanatic on May 24, 2014, 22:15:30 PM
All considered, I would say I am not compliant with this We you mention.

We, as in part of this screwed up human race ----this is what I meant in my late Sat. evening intoxicated condition --- We, kind of like being a part of some really dysfunctional family.   We, Homo sapiens are responsible for all our ills.

'c;
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: sanjuanwormhatch on May 25, 2014, 11:55:13 AM
Some jaded mofos up in here.
Title: Re: Jail time for the truth?
Post by: Aka on May 26, 2014, 17:17:08 PM
Apparently none of us got the memo.

http://www.businessinsider.com/fracking-debate-is-over-2014-5 (http://www.businessinsider.com/fracking-debate-is-over-2014-5)