https://youtu.be/eJnQBXmZ7Ek
Fished a west sloper that has been on my radar, but haven't been overly enthusiast to fish. Doug on the other hand has and he finally perked my curiosity enough to give it a try. 70 degree day. Good water levels. Pretty water, bottom structure, and gradient. Tons of bugs coming off water. Just poor fish populations as far as I can tell. I didn't see or spook any fish. No fish rising anywhere. Caught two small brookies, but had to really work for them. Not sure what the issue was, maybe stream PH levels. Really was a head scratcher.
(https://i.imgur.com/w67Fi3w.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZhbLJPi.jpg)
Did catch about 50 dace which is never a good sign on trout waters.
(https://i.imgur.com/8C5ykXK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qjiynBt.jpg)
Cool old structure. Think it was an old church.
(https://i.imgur.com/tIFhvro.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/2NivKH2.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/qU7xIdV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/rWTE8nn.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ge3OWA8.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/COA5bVw.jpg)
This water not having healthy trout kills me.
(https://i.imgur.com/Sr1Ewgt.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/gIbcqar.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/NqLyalK.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JQIGH7o.jpg)
West slope as in west side of the BR, or west slope as in Mississippi drainage?
Low summertime flows is the limiting factor, if I had to venture a guess.
Quote from: Onslow on April 01, 2019, 06:00:02 AMWest slope as in west side of the BR, or west slope as in Mississippi drainage?
West side of BR
Quote from: The Dude on April 01, 2019, 06:24:49 AMLow summertime flows is the limiting factor, if I had to venture a guess.
And possible with all west slope streams. This one just had a lot of 4ft+ holes that would seem to support trout and a fair amount of springs feeding it. Might be a temp issue though.
The fact that you have record/photo of Paraleptophlebia (probably) adoptiva reveals OK water temps in your “perplexing†stream (critter likes cooler waters). Unless your specimen came from a trib to your puzzling creek â€" well --- then you have another interrogation of the story.
Search alkalinity/acid deposition data on this stream from UVA’s/TU’s work, and underlying geological strata. Good luck with the search. Data and proximity of this water to other streams suffering from deposition problems might tell you a story.
My money is on higher low pH.
I had hopes for this good looker. But some breathren streams to the north have bona fide pH issues.
Interesting. I think I have a mental block in my head that can't fathom high pH in VA blue ridge outside of acid mine discharge - especially when compared to WNC. Maybe that mindset is a bit too shallow and wide. Good to know.
QuoteInteresting. I think I have a mental block in my head that can't fathom high pH in VA blue ridge outside of acid mine discharge - especially when compared to WNC. Maybe that mindset is a bit too shallow and wide. Good to know.
I was brain dead when I typed that. I meant low. Acid. Looow buffering capacity.
Quote from: Dougfish on April 02, 2019, 07:38:02 AMQuoteInteresting. I think I have a mental block in my head that can't fathom high pH in VA blue ridge outside of acid mine discharge - especially when compared to WNC. Maybe that mindset is a bit too shallow and wide. Good to know.
I was brain dead when I typed that. I meant low. Acid. Looow buffering capacity.
I talked with Mudwall and he had a good laugh at your high PH comment. He let you slide Doug. Another note is they use to mine for iron ore back there which is another sign of bedrock that plays a factor in the low buffering capacity. That whole west slope is just bad juju for trout.
I have some solid good fishing iron ore associated streams. Jus sayin.
It's the water source and the geology. That whole basalt, granite, silicate rock thing is real.
Yah, I suk.
Quote from: Dougfish on April 02, 2019, 08:01:51 AMThat whole basalt, granite, silicate rock thing is real.
That is all we have in WNC, but the streams still seem to fish better than what you experienced. There must be more to it than that.
Quote from: The Dude on April 02, 2019, 08:11:09 AMQuote from: Dougfish on April 02, 2019, 08:01:51 AMThat whole basalt, granite, silicate rock thing is real.
That is all we have in WNC, but the streams still seem to fish better than what you experienced. There must be more to it than that.
There is likely "more to it than that". It may be a latitude, temporal acid deposition, western wind pattern thing. There are streams within rock-throwing distance to J and Doug's barren water that historically had some of Virginia's best brookie fishing. They with their siliciclastic underbelly lost most of their ANC and their ecosystem faltered (fish, invertebrates, periphytic growth).
WNC vs mid-VA deposition patterns and loads over the last 100 years would be interesting for someone to investigate.
Had to Google ANC: acid neutralizing capacity.
And I thought ANC meant- Another Nasty Comment
The probable reason I said high pH earlier on, is because many of my growers fight high pH and high alkalinity (buffering capacity). I try to get people's water to 5.8 - 6.2 pH so they can grow their best plants. Often involves acid injection.
The exact opposite of what we want for our streams.
ANC means buffering capacity to little ol me.
Water with high alkalinity takes a lot of acid to move the pH down.
Water with low alkalinity is too easy moved in either direction.
As I understand it:
The streams with the majority silicate rock strata have low alkalinity.
The streams with granite and basalt bases, have more limestone and a higher alkalinity
AGNDF so just move on and try another spot....simple as that cant change it 0:0 0:0
Quote from: 22midge on April 02, 2019, 12:57:44 PMAGNDF so just move on and try another spot....simple as that cant change it 0:0 0:0
Not to be argumentative, but we can change it, and might be doing so, presently. Decades of acids in snow, rain, and dry deposition exhausted the ANC in some of these streams – what little that some of them had. I believe the levels of atmospheric deposition have declined over the last ~ 20 years. Clean Air Act? Firmer environmental regulations?
The pleasure principle or instant gratification --- I'm as guilty as the next rube, but if we wait and maintain an environmental vigilance, and more importantly live long enough, we may see some of these waters return to glory.
https://news.virginia.edu/content/virginia-brook-trout-streams-mostly-recovering-acid-deposition
What does AGNDF mean?
sorry just being an asshole...... ain't got no damn fish
Quote from: 22midge on April 02, 2019, 16:36:43 PMsorry just being an asshole...... ain't got no damn fish
Thanks PeeWee. Nope, you ain't an asshole, even when you think you're being an asshole. You are one of the least assholish individuals I've ever met from this asylum. As been said before, you are not an asshole if you are cognizant of being an asshole. All the real assholes I know have no idea they are assholes.
Fellow life member of DTF.
Big J should have fished on average 3.6 inches deeper.
The discussed creek doesn't have enough culverts to flow through. I think creeks populated with metal culverts fish better than the ones with plastic culverts, especially if the PH is below 4.89.
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on April 02, 2019, 15:54:27 PMQuote from: 22midge on April 02, 2019, 12:57:44 PMAGNDF so just move on and try another spot....simple as that cant change it 0:0 0:0
Not to be argumentative, but we can change it, and might be doing so, presently. Decades of acids in snow, rain, and dry deposition exhausted the ANC in some of these streams – what little that some of them had. I believe the levels of atmospheric deposition have declined over the last ~ 20 years. Clean Air Act? Firmer environmental regulations?
The pleasure principle or instant gratification --- I'm as guilty as the next rube, but if we wait and maintain an environmental vigilance, and more importantly live long enough, we may see some of these waters return to glory.
https://news.virginia.edu/content/virginia-brook-trout-streams-mostly-recovering-acid-deposition
What does AGNDF mean?
That story was written 8 years ago. That's like 2 1/2 generations of brook trout. Do you know if the 2020 survey is a go?
Quote from: The Dude on April 03, 2019, 06:47:25 AMQuote from: Mudwall Gatewood 3.0 on April 02, 2019, 15:54:27 PMQuote from: 22midge on April 02, 2019, 12:57:44 PMAGNDF so just move on and try another spot....simple as that cant change it 0:0 0:0
Not to be argumentative, but we can change it, and might be doing so, presently. Decades of acids in snow, rain, and dry deposition exhausted the ANC in some of these streams – what little that some of them had. I believe the levels of atmospheric deposition have declined over the last ~ 20 years. Clean Air Act? Firmer environmental regulations?
The pleasure principle or instant gratification --- I'm as guilty as the next rube, but if we wait and maintain an environmental vigilance, and more importantly live long enough, we may see some of these waters return to glory.
https://news.virginia.edu/content/virginia-brook-trout-streams-mostly-recovering-acid-deposition
What does AGNDF mean?
That story was written 8 years ago. That's like 2 1/2 generations of brook trout. Do you know if the 2020 survey is a go?
John, I don't know for sure. My guess is the research continues, but some of the UVA team are getting long-in-the-tooth. I can't imagine the Hoos relinquishing this feather in their cap. Even as a Hokie, I always respected and trusted this investigation and results; that UVA team has done one hell of a job!
Their site may tell us. Sorry, no time here -- cleaning/organizing all my turkey gear.
http://people.virginia.edu/~alr8m/POST/scripts/overview.php
Worm dunkers