Unlimited confederate (or any other) war memorial

Started by Woolly Bugger, July 07, 2015, 11:05:51 AM

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Should Confederate Memorials stay or go?

Keep them.
18 (69.2%)
Good riddance
8 (30.8%)

Total Members Voted: 25

Grannyknot

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Flea is not the best bassist of all time.

Big J



Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

Quote from: Al on July 15, 2015, 07:24:33 AM
Hitting close to home now..............

http://abc11.com/news/some-want-market-house-removed-from-fayetteville-logo/851811/

http://www.fayobserver.com/news/local/fayetteville-s-market-house-should-be-removed-from-city-logo/article_98c15352-9e85-5f2c-9aed-1ddfef1a4174.html

All this fuss will eventually reach some sort of equilibrium, I believe.  As the author of the R.E. Lee article stated, every generation has a responsibility.

"Every generation has a duty to root out the stubborn weed of prejudice from the culture. We do that, in part, through expressions of admiration and disdain."

I do however have a question, one that I have asked several acquaintances, and one that I wish not to prompt a crap-storm here. 

How can some bond ardent American patriotism with passion for a confederacy, a confederacy that when stripped of all the jingoism was fundamentally the seditious adversary of that very America?

I am sorry; I can't follow the logic. 
"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Woolly Bugger

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ex - I'm not going to live with you through one more fishing season!
me -There's a season?

Pastor explains icons to my son: you know like the fish symbol on the back of cars.
My son: My dad has two fish on his car and they're both trout!

Big J

It is going no where.  Stone Mountain's carving is a staple of Georgia and there is no way it would happen. 

Dougfish

There is too much passion rush to judgement in the world. Not enough logic.

^Cut and paste^ into just about any hot button topic out there.

Do you want a state government to fly a flag that is so derisive over state property? No.
Can it be in a museum? Sure, it's history.
Can an individual fly it? Sure. You can fly your shit stained boxers if you want to.

Tear down and/or deface confederate heroes statues? He who forgets history is doomed to repeat it. This is (possibly?) the only country in the world with hundreds/thousands of monuments to the losers of failed civil wars.

This has always been a country of "what could be?". Some of our fabled inventors, early leaders, newspapermen, industrialists, bankers, authors, merchants, etc. were racists, slave owners, sympathizers, spies, etc. Do we tear down their statues? Do we "whitewash" all history?
This is America. The most admired conundrum in the world. Don't take ingredients out of the soup of our past.

Yallerhammer

#52
Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on July 15, 2015, 08:36:38 AM


How can some bond ardent American patriotism with passion for a confederacy, a confederacy that when stripped of all the jingoism was fundamentally the seditious adversary of that very America?

I am sorry; I can't follow the logic.

I think it is patriotism for the America that originally was and could have been, not the America that it has now become. The "passion for confederacy" is essentially a longing for a stripped-down American Republic government such as was originally laid out in the Constitution- a system focused mostly on individual liberty and responsibility with the individual states having more say in their own affairs than the Federal government; instead of the snarl of bureaucracy, corruption, over-regulation, and ever-growing self-feeding greed and revenue generation that the Federal government has become in our time. Secession was a product of observation of the trend toward an all-powerful Federal government. The War of Northern Aggression was fought for many of the same reasons that the American Revolution was, and is much the same kind of idea. The war was fought not because of hate for America, but love of the original America that was being altered until it was unrecognizable.

It is entirely possible to deeply love your country, while simultaneously loathing and distrusting your government.
Women want me, doughbellies fear me. - Little Debbie Prostaff

Beetle

No matter what your perversion or persuasion, the right to free speech is patriotism defined.


Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

Quote from: Ralyd on July 15, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
You don't get to define the world for anyone but yourself.

Isn't that an Oprah Winfrey quote?  No matter, it suggests the truth, but it is still ok to attempt to comprehend the definitions of others. 
"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

#55
Quote from: Ralyd on July 15, 2015, 11:11:38 AM
One doesn't use words like 'fundamentally' and 'seditious' as the starting point for innocent inquiry. But now that you mention it, when did you stop beating your wife?

I had no replacement for "fundamentally".  I originally had treasonous instead of "seditious", but that sounded a bit harsh.  And who the hell said that my inquiry was innocent?  Innocent inquiry --- what the heck does that mean?  I simply said I didn't want to start a shit storm.  You were under no obligation to answer my question, but I do appreciate your response. 

And to address yours:  I have never beaten my wife.  See how simple a reply can be.
"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Al

Quote from: Ralyd on July 15, 2015, 09:57:46 AM
The war birthed a slogan that gets right to the heart of the issue: "Rich man's war, poor man's fight."

Haven't heard that one in awhile but it speaks a lot of truth about just about every war we get into. With our all volunteer force the rich folks don't even have to worry about their kids or grand kids getting in harms way. Even back in my early day's when we had the draft there were so many ways to get out of it that it was still a "poor man's fight" -  Funny thing is now I run into lots of folks who say, "in hindsight I wish I had gone"

IMHO we need some sort of "Universal Service" for everyone.  Not everyone is cut out or even qualified for the military but there are plenty of other jobs they could do in community service - if they are totally inept let them pick up trash or something similar. Make it 2 years and you get to choose when to go but it must be completed before you reach a certain age, ie 25-30 years old.

Yallerhammer

#57
One could draw parallels between all this and the Taliban and ISIS destroying historic religious and artistic works that don't fit into their narrow worldview.  I've found that often, those with the highest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers on their cars are actually the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing to actually coexist with others who don't share their views of how things should work.
Women want me, doughbellies fear me. - Little Debbie Prostaff

themidge

Quote from: troutfanatic on July 15, 2015, 15:10:46 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 15, 2015, 15:07:26 PM
One could draw parallels between all this and the Taliban and ISIS destroying historic religious and artistic works that don't fit into their narrow worldview.  I've found that often, those with the highest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers on their cars are actually the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing to actually coexist with others who don't share their views of how things should work.

I totally agree with that.
X2

Al

Quote from: troutfanatic on July 15, 2015, 15:10:46 PM
Quote from: Yallerhammer on July 15, 2015, 15:07:26 PM
One could draw parallels between all this and the Taliban and ISIS destroying historic religious and artistic works that don't fit into their narrow worldview.  I've found that often, those with the highest number of "Tolerance" and "Coexist" and "All One" stickers on their cars are actually the most narrow-minded and the least likely to tolerate any opinion that disagrees with their own, and the least willing to actually coexist with others who don't share their views of how things should work.

I totally agree with that.

Yep - gave ya both a + on the Kama line for that observation.  --  Oooppps, had to go back and do the same for midge who posted while I was typing.