The Arctic ice cap shrank so much this summer that waves briefly lapped along two long-imagined Arctic shipping routes, the Northwest Passage over Canada and the Northern Sea Route over Russia.
Over all, the floating ice dwindled to an extent unparalleled in a century or more, by several estimates.
Now the six-month dark season has returned to the North Pole. In the deepening chill, new ice is already spreading over vast stretches of the Arctic Ocean. Astonished by the summer's changes, scientists are studying the forces that exposed one million square miles of open water — six Californias — beyond the average since satellites started measurements in 1979.
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/02/science/earth/02arct.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
Don't worry about the bears too much. They've made it through much worse warming cycles in the past.
....who is going to take care of the bears when we're gone? ???
That's it! As of now, I REFUSE TO DIE!
I think all responsible environmentalist should do the same as a selfless act of kindness to the bears. If we refuse to die, we can properly manage the environment since mother nature doesn't know what the fuck to do about it!
Lets wrench the environmental control of this planet from mother nature and set things to rights!
Who's with me?
agreed!
(http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y234/Psycho_Fisher/PsychoWaterWorld.jpg)
I'm with you fellers!
It makes you wonder how polar bears survived the last warming trend, when mean temperatures were estimated to be 2.5 - 7 degrees C warmer than present. I sure hope they hang on.
if all the animals on the planet were to die, so too would humans... but if all the humans were to die, the animals would do just fine.
you ever wonder if we are somekind of virus... if a host dies so to does the virus, but if the virus dies the host does just fine. :)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboJUxTIaC4 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TboJUxTIaC4)
Quote from: lepomis_mcro on October 04, 2007, 18:44:30 PM
if all the animals on the planet were to die, so too would humans... but if all the humans were to die, the animals would do just fine.......
.....sorry dude, gotta play the "bullshit" card! If that were the case, how do the true vegiterians stay alive if they arn't eating meat?
..."you ever wonder if we are somekind of virus... "
you are kidding......right?
Actually, from what I have been reading lately, it doesn't need to be all the animals, just the bees. No bees = limited to no pollination = no food of any sort. I know that is a doom and gloom scenario, but think about it for a moment.
Quote from: jscagline on October 04, 2007, 20:15:38 PM
Quote from: lepomis_mcro on October 04, 2007, 18:44:30 PM
if all the animals on the planet were to die, so too would humans... but if all the humans were to die, the animals would do just fine.......
.....sorry dude, gotta play the "bullshit" card! If that were the case, how do the true vegiterians stay alive if they arn't eating meat?
..."you ever wonder if we are somekind of virus... "
you are kidding......right?
i said nothing about eating meat (http://starwarsloser.info/smile/rolleye/rolleye0011.gif) (http://www.squidoo.com/seonorwich) .. just like what peter said. no bees no pollination.
you need them, more than they need you....and thats no bullshit.
Quote from: lepomis_mcro on October 05, 2007, 20:15:54 PM
Quote from: jscagline on October 04, 2007, 20:15:38 PM
Quote from: lepomis_mcro on October 04, 2007, 18:44:30 PM
if all the animals on the planet were to die, so too would humans... but if all the humans were to die, the animals would do just fine.......
.....sorry dude, gotta play the "bullshit" card! If that were the case, how do the true vegiterians stay alive if they arn't eating meat?
..."you ever wonder if we are somekind of virus... "
you are kidding......right?
i said nothing about eating meat (http://starwarsloser.info/smile/rolleye/rolleye0011.gif) (http://www.squidoo.com/seonorwich) .. just like what peter said. no bees no pollination.
you need them, more than they need you....and thats no bullshit.
...but you did not say bees, Peter did. You said animals, thats a pretty broad, undefining term. You should have been more specific. Yes, Peter is correct in that bees are extremely important because of the function they perform, pollination.
...just my nonvirulent opinion is all.....
Eh, the polar bears will make it. Fluctuations will and have happened with global temperatures in the past.
Peter, I have heard the same about the bees. But then just so happens a guy in our church works for the USDA and his lab is one that is doing co-research along with some universities on BCCD (bee colony collapse disorder), and he says that even if honey bees did die of that other insects would take their place like moths and other bees(bumble bees). What is even more interesting is that bees are not even native to the US! The colonists brought them over here.
Quote from: jscagline on October 05, 2007, 21:54:50 PM
Quote from: lepomis_mcro on October 05, 2007, 20:15:54 PM
Quote from: jscagline on October 04, 2007, 20:15:38 PM
Quote from: lepomis_mcro on October 04, 2007, 18:44:30 PM
if all the animals on the planet were to die, so too would humans... but if all the humans were to die, the animals would do just fine.......
.....sorry dude, gotta play the "bullshit" card! If that were the case, how do the true vegiterians stay alive if they arn't eating meat?
..."you ever wonder if we are somekind of virus... "
you are kidding......right?
i said nothing about eating meat (http://starwarsloser.info/smile/rolleye/rolleye0011.gif) (http://www.squidoo.com/seonorwich) .. just like what peter said. no bees no pollination.
you need them, more than they need you....and thats no bullshit.
...but you did not say bees, Peter did. You said animals, thats a pretty broad, undefining term. You should have been more specific. Yes, Peter is correct in that bees are extremely important because of the function they perform, pollination.
...just my nonvirulent opinion is all.....
my mistake. i thought i was being specific when i said
all the animals. i ment everything not part of the human race. you know cats, dogs, bees, moths, fish, bears, cockroach, birds, rabbits. ect, ect, ect,... if you woke up tomorrow and the were all gone. how long do you think we would survive.
now im not saying they are going to disapear over night. im just asking to think about what it would be like if they did.
at this moment i think we have alot in common with the frog that you put into a cold pot of water and slowly heat. he will sit there untill he dies(http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/chapel/frogs/brow34.gif). where as you take a frog and drop it straight into the hot water he will try to get out.
im sorry if you didnt comprehend that.
[quote ......im sorry if you didnt comprehend that.
[/quote]
I can see you are going to be one of those liberal ass hats that resort to being catty because you have no clue as to real content and substance in a nonbiased conversation. You'll continue to bash or try to belittle because you were never taught to converse in an adult manner.
So now I am done with you....good day!
I dont know about ya'll but i hope the cows dont die, cause i love a good steak, well a few cows have to die, you know for me to have my steak, but not the whole population, oh yeah and the potato's, i hope they dont dissapear cause you've got to have a potato with your steak. Can you believe my wife says all i think about is myself, she's crazy, here i am thinking about the environment and cows and stuff. I bet polar bears would like steak. I THINK I'LL COOK A STEAK TONIGHT! Thank you lord for the cows.
;D ;D
Jscagline, if he's that wrong, give him some truth instead of giving up yourself. You probably turned him of as much as he turned you off.
Lepomis-mcro-I have been thinking about what you said-- and I think you are right, that if every animal died humans would have an extremely hard time staying alive. But, just because we would do worse if all the animals die in no way proves that the animals don't need us, or even that they would do better if we weren't even here. Now I know there are many animals that would do better without human disturbance, but then there are many native animals who's populations have multiplied greatly because of humans. Whitetail deer for example, have much denser populations in many suburban areas than in adjacent areas.
So what are you advocating or suggesting that we humans do? You can't declare that the human race be killed off. How about just living just as you are and be a good steward to God's creation (don't litter, turn off the lights, and follow game laws ect.).
Polar bears have survived warmer fluctuations in temperature, so why be worried about this one? Seems like somewhere I read that climatist were predicting global cooling and an ice age earlier in this century. And just say, that Polar bears were to die off. It would be a great loss, and certainly dissapointing, but just one species that goes extinct is not going to cause humans to die off. The world has survived through other species extinctions.
Just a few thoughts I had.
Caleb
No comments? ???
Damn. this has turned out to be a hot topic >:D ;D
9ft4wt
Funny. With the 92 we had here today... the weather is definatly a very hot topic. I say wait about 3 to 5 years and go back to this and see if there is any validity to whats going on around the world. The weather will get everybodys attention, after all it is the most talked about subject.
Dont yall get me wrong... I worry about it too.
Oh by the way, I totally agree with Mark so smite away.
Quote from: calebB on October 06, 2007, 22:18:04 PM
Jscagline, if he's that wrong, give him some truth instead of giving up yourself. You probably turned him of as much as he turned you off.
Lepomis-mcro-I have been thinking about what you said-- and I think you are right, that if every animal died humans would have an extremely hard time staying alive. But, just because we would do worse if all the animals die in no way proves that the animals don't need us, or even that they would do better if we weren't even here. Now I know there are many animals that would do better without human disturbance, but then there are many native animals who's populations have multiplied greatly because of humans. Whitetail deer for example, have much denser populations in many suburban areas than in adjacent areas.
So what are you advocating or suggesting that we humans do? You can't declare that the human race be killed off. How about just living just as you are and be a good steward to God's creation (don't litter, turn off the lights, and follow game laws ect.).
Seems like somewhere I read that climatist were predicting global cooling and an ice age earlier in this century. And just say, that Polar bears were to die off. It would be a great loss, and certainly dissapointing, but just one species that goes extinct is not going to cause humans to die off. The world has survived through other species extinctions.
Just a few thoughts I had.
Caleb
QuotePolar bears have survived warmer fluctuations in temperature, so why be worried about this one?
in not really worried about the polar bears. one species by itself may not matter.
the problem i have is they start to add up
QuoteSince 1627, over 150 animal species are known to have become extinct, every one caused by humans. Several others may have become extinct in less documented ecosystems such as the Amazon rainforest, and hundreds of others are on the verge. Some of the best known recently extinct animals include (with year of extinction):
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Dictionary%20of%20recently%20extinct%20animals (http://everything2.com/index.pl?node=Dictionary%20of%20recently%20extinct%20animals)
jurassic park might have been a good movie, but in the real world. once they are gone, thats it no do overs.
take the southern brook trout. if loggers had their way. the fish would be even harder to find, and maybe not around for us to fish for today :'(
QuoteWhitetail deer for example, have much denser populations in many suburban areas than in adjacent areas.
the white tail are doing better in the city because there is a trash can for them to eat out of. its not because city life is so great.
QuoteSo what are you advocating or suggesting that we humans do?
i wish we would stop dumping every thing into the water,
QuotePesticide spill on Helton creek tributary
http://www.brfff.com/forum/index.php/topic,3075.0.html (http://www.brfff.com/forum/index.php/topic,3075.0.html)
we went to the moon almost fourty years ago. dont you think its time we find a car that will run on something other than oil from the middle east? new houses that can benefit from it should have solar collectors on the roof. how about we dont package everything in plastic. how about a little restraint over our greed, so maybe what we did to the american buffalo does not happen again
just for starters
Quote from: jscagline on October 06, 2007, 07:44:03 AM
Quote......im sorry if you didnt comprehend that.
I can see you are going to be one of those liberal ass hats that resort to being catty because you have no clue as to real content and substance in a nonbiased conversation. You'll continue to bash or try to belittle because you were never taught to converse in an adult manner.
So now I am done with you....good day!
You should talk,
Lets see, who was it sticking up for a Chapstick and his call to pray for killing Muslims.
What a fucking joke for you to be calling any one asshat.....LOL
Why don't you stick to your beloved SELFF, and start this shit over there where it belongs.
You helped make that site a shit hole. And you might even get the praise you seam to desire from the rest of the low esteem crowd.
Quotethe white tail are doing better in the city because there is a trash can for them to eat out of. its not because city life is so great.
If you think whitetails eat trash out of trash cans ... we sure don't need to be taking ecological advice from you.
Quote from: troutphisher on October 09, 2007, 18:33:28 PM
Quote from: jscagline on October 06, 2007, 07:44:03 AM
Quote......im sorry if you didnt comprehend that.
I can see you are going to be one of those liberal ass hats that resort to being catty because you have no clue as to real content and substance in a nonbiased conversation. You'll continue to bash or try to belittle because you were never taught to converse in an adult manner.
So now I am done with you....good day!
You should talk,
Lets see, who was it sticking up for a Chapstick and his call to pray for killing Muslims.
What a fucking joke for you to be calling any one asshat.....LOL
Why don't you stick to your beloved SELFF, and start this shit over there where it belongs.
You helped make that site a shit hole. And you might even get the praise you seam to desire from the rest of the low esteem crowd.
Wow TP...couldn't do this in a pm....you must have been drinking! Waiting so long to drop in and make a comment; whats the matter, had to wait and test the mood of the rest of the "court"? Yeah, there's forward thinking for you!
First of all, I've already invested way too much time responding to your retarded post so I will dismiss it with this:
If SEFFF is a shit hole, it is because of folks like you who were only there to flame and cause trouble. You lack the ability to converse like a responsible adult evident by your above post. You state your opinion and call names and flame anyone who disagrees.
I never sought praise from anywhere, don't need it. By the way, I see your spelling hasn't improved any....I can see you didn't take my advice and take some classes.......what a bitter little person you are for having to bring up old shit. But that is okay, I forgive you. I'm done with you too, but I forgive you. And if it makes you feel better you can be an ass hat also.
Lastly, get used to it, I'm here until Wooly closes the site or he bans me so move on man, life is too good and short to be bitter!
I would have preferred to have this exchange in PM but YOU chose to put it here........
Good day!
Funny, you just resorted to name-calling, the same thing you accused Leper of.
I haven't posted on the SELFF in over two years, the current status falls squarely on the current members that includes you.
The cult you have helped develop over there is a good place for you.
Look at the current posts and bickering that takes place, a proud legacy for sure.
You are more than welcome to hang around here, but if all you going to contribute is jokes and personal attacks on other members," who, by the way contribute a hell of a lot more than you do" Than you have to take the heat that comes with it. Unlike SELFF we are not a cult following, you start shit here and we call you out.
The fact that I waited so long was pure enjoyment on my behalf, you see I like to feed the rope to the fools, it makes the snap much louder when the reach the end of it.
I don't think we have to wait to long for you to be banned, a fool usually stumbles down that path on his own, but I will have some fun during your stay.
Quote from: MtnGrouseHtr on October 09, 2007, 20:08:40 PM
Quotethe white tail are doing better in the city because there is a trash can for them to eat out of. its not because city life is so great.
If you think whitetails eat trash out of trash cans ... we sure don't need to be taking ecological advice from you.
It would be nice if they did, though. Recycling is good for the environment and the darn things would stay away from my garden.
Quote from: MtnGrouseHtr on October 09, 2007, 20:08:40 PM
Quotethe white tail are doing better in the city because there is a trash can for them to eat out of. its not because city life is so great.
If you think whitetails eat trash out of trash cans ... we sure don't need to be taking ecological advice from you.
i guess im not the only one that thinks they will eat trash...
QuoteHabitat
Deer generally prefer open woodland, but are often found on the fringes of urban areas and in farming country, but desert species can occur in most habitats within 10 miles of a water source. They often enter human inhabited areas and feast on flowers and grass as well as regularly getting a drink from man's abundant water supplies. Some deer have also taken to eating garbage and plastic which is not at all good for them. Recently. A number of deer had to be sacrificed at the Grand Canyon after having eaten human trash which stopped up their systems and caused them not to be able to process food.
http://www.desertusa.com/mag99/june/papr/wtdeer.html (http://www.desertusa.com/mag99/june/papr/wtdeer.html)
but it does look like i was wrong about the garbage helping the population. it looks like if you want to decrease the population you let them have at your trash.
I bet it took a while to google up that quote. I also bet you could find a documented case of a polar bear eating a Toucan if you looked long enough.. I would say its pretty rare though.
Not to mention that those Grand Canyon deer probably chewed on a little peyote before hitting up the garbage can for munchies.
I finally figured it out Scagline!
From reading your past and present posts, it got me thinking about my psychology classes. I remember distinct indices attributable to homosexual behavior.
For instance the need to fit into the crowd. The clinging on the words or other males, and congratulatory comments given to those you seek approval of.
I think I am beginning to understand your behavior, and the inner struggles that torment you. It must be very difficult for you to hide.
It's ok to be gay. This is the 21st century.
Unfortunately this is not a gay site, but I am sure with a little effort involving a google search you can find a place to fit in. Here is one link that maybe helpful. I am sure you'll find like oriented folks here.
http://www.southeastflyfishingforum.com/forum/
Just think, years down the road, you'll thank me, for helping you come out of the closet.
You are not expected to send Christmas cards or birthday wishes; just knowing I helped you is enough gratitude.
TP.
LM,
Ditto about not dumping stuff in the water-- I'm all for it.
...About the deer eating trash- what you mention was an isolated incident-- not a common occurance. I am not saying it doesn't happen, but it is certainly not the reason for increased populations in urban areas. Here is a quote from the same page as yours.
QuoteWhite-tail deer feed on a variety of vegetation, depending on what is available in their habitat. They are browsers feeding on twigs, leaves, bark, shrubs, the fruits and nuts of most vegetation, as well as lichens and other fungi. In desert areas, plants such as huajillo brush, yucca, prickly pear cactus, comal, ratama and various tough shrubs may be the main components of a White-tail's diet.
Deer are browsers. Elk are grazers. Bears are scavengers-- they're the ones living out of a trash can.
And about species going extinct-- I don't believe that we should go extinct just so some other little animals don't go extinct. Believe me, I am as much for the brook trout restoration program in the smokies as you are, but if they had gone extinct, it wouldn't have hindered you from living. I am not justifying the logger's actions, it's just they didn't know any better. Let's be happy that we now know how to log without damaging the forests like clear cutting.
Caleb
There are some other indicators of climate change. When I was a kid, I never had to worry about west Nile virus. From what I am reading, west Nile does not occur in temps below 50, but there was several cases reported up in northern Minnesota, where I grew up. I have also noticed the winters are not as cold, nor is the snow fall that heavy by comparison to previous years. I don't understand the long term effects yet, but I think it will be good in some regions, and disastrous in others.
Places that are dry now, might become even dryer and may change to a desert, where as places that may have had cooler climate might change to a milder climate, with more rain than the region can take. Years down the road, we know what the effects are and they might not be good for the southern US regions.