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Gun laws

Started by Woolly Bugger, June 02, 2022, 16:10:00 PM

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Agree or disagree

3-day waiting period
15 (62.5%)
Restrict or eliminate marketing (like tobacco)
6 (25%)
More "red flag" laws
11 (45.8%)
Restrictions on "assault style" weapons
12 (50%)
Require training
11 (45.8%)
Increase taxes to pay compensation for medical, law enforcement and victims
5 (20.8%)
None of the above
6 (25%)

Total Members Voted: 24

22midge

agree with you totally ole holy one........until you have had someone firing at you, can't understand what it takes to send death down range
 
never let a day go by without telling your children how special they are----make a child smile today and gain a friend for life

Woolly Bugger

Chapel Hill-Carrboro wrestles with police officers in schools. Here's what they're doing.


>>> School resource officers will remain on most middle and high school campuses in Chapel Hill and Carrboro this fall, but there could be new limits on the role they play.

The school board voted 5-1 Thursday night, after a lengthy conversation about school safety and the district's 33-year SRO program, to renew a contract with police for now.

Board members also agreed to add behavioral health specialists in all schools and consider potential changes by July 20, including how to better track SRO interactions with students and complaints about those interactions.


>>> One officer also isn't enough to secure an entire school, he said, arguing that it's more important to ensure safe and secure schools than focus on a program meant to build relationships between students and law enforcement.

"I really don't want you on campus at all, because I cannot protect those children because I don't know your intent," Temne, who is Black, told Chapel Hill Police Chief Chris Blue and Carrboro Police Chief Chris Atack, both of whom attended Thursday's meeting.


>>> "Racism, gun violence, public animosity right now towards one another is at a level in our society like I've never experienced in my lifetime," Griffin said. "We all can acknowledge that and wish it was different, but it's not the times that we live in. Our local police aren't going to solve these issues, however, they have been helpful many times in ways that don't show up in statistics.

 
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/local/education/article262608537.html
ex - I'm not going to live with you through one more fishing season!
me -There's a season?

Pastor explains icons to my son: you know like the fish symbol on the back of cars.
My son: My dad has two fish on his car and they're both trout!

Phil

Quote from: Big J on June 17, 2022, 13:12:51 PMHope I didn't come off sounding like I'm attacking you, just used your quote as an example of what I've been hearing.  Makes no sense to me.  You are basically saying "gun fights are hard, I'd rather you just be defenseless and leave it to someone else because you aren't capable.  Just hope the system doesn't fail you."  I'd rather go out around a pile of empty cases trying to safe the life of a kid if I was a teacher in a classroom than just hug the kids in a corner and tell them it'll be alright, the police will set up a perimeter for 1 hour while gunman goes back and forth between classrooms because some coward says "it's not an active shooter situation anymore" with shots being fired still.

I hear ya, Big J -- but the sad truth (imo) is that arming most normal everyday schoolteachers and giving them only 24 hours of classroom and gun range training is most likely a recipe for disaster. Trying to take an attacker down in a room full of children is going to be an extremely tricky situation. That amount of training isn't going to do any good. Most teachers are as likely to freeze as do anything, and if they do act might spray rounds all over the classroom. Real firefights are insane situations even without kids all around.

22midge

#48
agree with Phil that 24 hours doesn't prepare you for the job being ask of you. I believe retired law enforcement or ex-military would be more than happy to help out in this situation

never let a day go by without telling your children how special they are----make a child smile today and gain a friend for life

Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

I'll repeat what I said under the "lust for guns" thread. 

"Use the teachers and school administrators as an example.  They are not trained to combat such abhorrent events; they are skilled to teach and oversee our youth for a few hours every day.  How can an educator do their job, if they are consumed with worry over a deranged individual(s)?  Locking doors, metal detectors, arming teachers, resource officers, etc. is like taking aspirin for cancer."

I'll add. Even if they are "trained" teachers, I would not put much faith in them stopping a wacko with a semiautomatic, with more rounds than the class of students can count. 

BUT, the question should be, why are we even considering asking teachers to arm themselves.    Obviously, I am against any teacher carrying a gun at any school.  Of all the reasons to homeschool a child, a teacher with a gun is likely not one of them.  But if I had a child in school and discovered the teacher, "trained' or not, had a firearm in class I'd be educating that child at home.

Now, PeeWee's idea of utilizing "retired law enforcement or ex-military" has some merit if the vetting process is like passing the bar and medical exams. 
"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

trout-r-us

Quote from: 22midge on June 17, 2022, 14:52:56 PMagree with Phil that 24 hours doesn't prepare you for the job being ask of you. I believe retired law enforcement or ex-military would be more than happy to help out in this situation

Our county Sheriff talked about the volunteer program a few years ago and I thought it was moving forward, but I don't know what ever happened with it.

https://myfox8.com/news/sheriff-superintendent-plan-to-have-armed-volunteers-at-rockingham-county-schools/

Now he's seeking funding for resource officers, so perhaps the volunteer deal didn't work out.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/education/rockingham-county-sheriff-calls-on-congress-for-more-resource-officers-in-schools-across-the-country-legislation-north-carolina/83-973ddbdb-b558-426b-9919-4b0403f69405
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
― Heraclitus

Trout Maharishi

Quote from: trout-r-us on June 17, 2022, 17:59:21 PM
Quote from: 22midge on June 17, 2022, 14:52:56 PMagree with Phil that 24 hours doesn't prepare you for the job being ask of you. I believe retired law enforcement or ex-military would be more than happy to help out in this situation

Our county Sheriff talked about the volunteer program a few years ago and I thought it was moving forward, but I don't know what ever happened with it.

https://myfox8.com/news/sheriff-superintendent-plan-to-have-armed-volunteers-at-rockingham-county-schools/

Now he's seeking funding for resource officers, so perhaps the volunteer deal didn't work out.

https://www.wfmynews2.com/article/news/education/rockingham-county-sheriff-calls-on-congress-for-more-resource-officers-in-schools-across-the-country-legislation-north-carolina/83-973ddbdb-b558-426b-9919-4b0403f69405


I'm not sure but I think liability may be a huge issue? Something happens and some nut job or kid ends up shot or dead, someone is going to pay. b';
"We're all going to die, all of us, what a circus! That alone should make us love each other but it doesn't. We are terrorized and flattened by trivialities, we are eaten up by nothing."
― Charles Bukowski

trout-r-us

My opinion:
Though placement of guns in schools MIGHT deter a mass shooter and divert him (it's rarely a her) to choose a softer target, perhaps he'll skip the school and head to a church, a food market, a subway car, a sporting event, a fly fishing show, etc. How many armed guards will we need to properly protect our citizens?

Any serious attempt to initiate change where cause and effect are at play is normally approached via use of a root cause analysis. Attempting to prevent a mass shooting by concentrating effort on how to kill the perpetrator once he is on the scene seems to me to be addressing the issue bass ackwards, or as some say having the tail wag the dog.

Peace not piece!

"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
― Heraclitus

Onslow

Quote from: trout-r-us on June 18, 2022, 06:57:00 AMMy opinion:
Though placement of guns in schools MIGHT deter a mass shooter and divert him (it's rarely a her) to choose a softer target, perhaps he'll skip the school and head to a church, a food market, a subway car, a sporting event, a fly fishing show, etc. How many armed guards will we need to properly protect our citizens?

Any serious attempt to initiate change where cause and effect are at play is normally approached via use of a root cause analysis. Attempting to prevent a mass shooting by concentrating effort on how to kill the perpetrator once he is on the scene seems to me to be addressing the issue bass ackwards, or as some say having the tail wag the dog.

Peace not piece!



How does one go about to fix arrested development and lack of self control?  Sadly this is the the cause of the gun glut and shootings.

My definition of a gun glutton is one who owns over 10 guns, and 10k of rounds.


trout-r-us

You cannot view this attachment.
"No man ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and he's not the same man."
― Heraclitus

Onslow

#55
Quote from: trout-r-us on June 19, 2022, 07:21:28 AMYou cannot view this attachment.

As John Lyndon (Johny Rotten of the Sex Pistols) stated in lyric, "even a speck of sand can be dangerous in the right hands".

It is very ironic you post this in a gun thread.  Like guns, CRT is harmless, but in the hands of a power hungry, self absorbed shits, it is very toxic and dangerous.  Some are live for administering poison enemas. Sadly, there are bad actors both on the left and the right who are hell bent on destroying the norms.  We all know who these people are.


Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

#56
Quote from: Onslow on June 19, 2022, 07:59:00 AMAs John Lyndon (Johny Rotten of the Sex Pistols) stated in lyric, "even a speck of sand can be dangerous in the right hands".

It is very ironic you post this in a gun thread.  Like guns, CRT is harmless, but in the hands of a power hungry, self absorbed shits, it is very toxic and dangerous.  Some  live for administering poison enemas. Sadly, there are bad actors both on the left and the right who are hell bent on destroying the norms.  We all know who these people are.



Ken, I thoroughly enjoy your posts; they make me think and weigh issues.

I like Johny Rotten, but damned if I can get a reading on him.  I think he endorsed Obama, then Clinton, then in 2020 endorsed Trump.

I like your analogy of guns and CRT, but personally I don't see it.

Off for smoked chicken wings for father's day; the son is learning to smoke meat.

Peace.

"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Onslow

What do CRT and guns/ incendiary devices have in common?  CRT was designed for graduate level seminar (adults).  Only very well trained adults should be handling this material.  Not age appropriate for children or adults with a childish mind.  It also does well being locked up in a safe away from people.


streamereater_101691

Quote from: trout-r-us on June 14, 2022, 19:51:21 PM
Quote from: streamereater_101691 on June 14, 2022, 18:02:29 PM
Quote from: trout-r-us on June 13, 2022, 21:34:56 PM
Quote from: streamereater_101691 on June 13, 2022, 06:56:30 AMYou've already said it, "I personally would like to see all guns banned." Now tell me how you're going to do it effectively.



I'm just stating what I would like to see. I don't have the authority or knowledge to get it done.  All I can do is vote for those representatives that seem to represent my viewpoint.
I don't understand your apparent anger and condescending attitude toward folks with opinions that differ from your own.
If I said anything that personally offended you, it was unintentional and I apologize.


No animosity toward you or your views, but using comedy sketches to somehow prove a point just doesn't fly with me. It seems as though they/you are making fun of the problem rather than coming up with a logical solution that everyone can agree with. I fully welcome everyone with differing opinions than mine, but you better be ready to back up your theories and opinions with something because discussion and rationalization are the only ways to fix problems in general, let alone this big one. Yes, it would be easy to ban guns, but are you/someone you elect going to go door to door and collect them? I think not.

My opinion is that I don't see any problem with Klepper's representation of the training or lack thereof necessary to buy or carry a deadly weapon in public.
The recent arrest and conviction of a trained veteran police officer that shot and killed a guy with a real gun when she claims she thought she was using a taser sends me a message that if she was not prepared under that stressful situation after many hours of training and years of experience, I just don't feel very safe with non trained or lightly trained everyday citizens walking or driving around with guns.
And I don't understand what you mean when you say I better be ready to back up my opinions. If I express an opinion, that's pretty much it.

Peace

 I agree with you about the police officer who shot the man. That seems like a total bullshit excuse. The officers in our neck of the woods carry tasers and lethal force on opposite hips. There is a clear difference. To your comment about civilians, how many licensed ccw holders have you seen arrested for crimes/ commit crimes? The town you live in has 16,000 people. Over 3,000 are licensed ccw holders who abide by the law. Yes, we know good guys with guns don't stop crime, but shouldn't they be allowed to protect themselves? You choose not to, thats your right.
I'm saying to convince me your way is better, you should be willing to express how/why/when you can ban guns. And not just about guns, but everything. That's how we have discussion and learn from each other. Hell, you might make me realize you're correct about a particular subject. If you can't/wont, don't be mad when I call you a narrow minded asshole.

streamereater_101691

Quote from: Big J on June 17, 2022, 12:11:21 PMAnd I'd be happy if we could at least agree on an armed resource officer at every school.  We guard all our "most important" things in this country with guns.  Banks, hospitals, politicians, politician's kids, sporting events, etc.  But people feel unsafe having an armed RSO at a school?  Makes no sense to me.  I say we give some of these politician's security detail budget to schools RSO funding if they can't find the money to do this.

I couldn't agree with you more Big J regarding the RSO's. I think we should ration RSO's to the number of children attending the school. More children in the school, more enforcement needed. Unfortunately, tactics do become more and more important in these situations. We face the enemy abroad with not only a physical presence, but also a psychological one as well. Unfortunately, I believe this will play a role at home as well.

To your opinion regarding arming teachers, I'm on the fence. Part of me says yes, arming teachers will help, but only given the right training. I think it should be a voluntary choice along with a high amount of training, ~40 hrs completed every year WITH their weapon of choice. We already ask a ton of teachers. You'll weed out the ones who really want to protect their students quickly.

On the other hand, I believe we are missing a great opportunity in retired officers. I know quite a few (50-65yr olds) who who mow lawns, wash cars, and/or do handy work for extra money after retirement. Why not hire them? They already have the training, weapons tactics, and know their surroundings. Make it worth their while.