Commander in Sheave

[Phil]

I put the parts of the post in quotes that were not in my words... Figured that it would be evident. Sorry if you think I needed to authenticate it. 
Want me to do something different? I'll go back and say ~~ Robert Reich. It makes no difference. I put his comments in quotes. You are grasping at straws because you cannot answer intelligently.

Asshole, you are. That's not a quote. That's just what I think.

[flatlander]

I put the parts of the post in quotes that were not in my words... Figured that it would be evident. Sorry if you think I needed to authenticate it. 

Asshole. you are. That's not a quote. That's just what I think.

LOL...keep posting Phil.  I find you amusing

[Phil]

All large political doctrines are rich in difficult problems -- problems that are quite above the average citizen's reach. And that is not strange, since they are also above the reach of the ablest minds in the country; after all the fuss and all the talk, not one of those doctrines has been conclusively proven to be the right one and the best.

Put the quotes on that one, Flatliner.  ;

[flatlander]

All large political doctrines are rich in difficult problems -- problems that are quite above the average citizen's reach. And that is not strange, since they are also above the reach of the ablest minds in the country; after all the fuss and all the talk, not one of those doctrines has been conclusively proven to be the right one and the best.

Put the quotes on that one, Flatliner.  ;

Mark Twain...you'd do well to take heed of that one, Phil.  The truth generally lies somewhere in between...not way over on the "left" side of the room where you're holding up the wall.

[Phil]

I'm not really on the far left. I'm no socialist or communist. I'm a moderate liberal who served my country. Somehow or another in the past 30 years, however, the American political climate has shifted so far to the right that I am now considered a far left nut-job Commie Socialist anti-American because of my political views. Go figure. 



Maybe you guys should think about this just a bit. Or not. 

[Al]

You guys lighten up on Phil. Remember, he's packing heat now

Seriously, we can go round and round on this and never meet even close to the middle. One thing is for sure we are going to hell in a hand basket and I'm not so sure there is a damn thing we can do about it.

[troutphisher]

Phil,
You have to stop watching MSNB, CBS and ABC.

I have spent the last 10 years of my career, setting up jobs in foreign countries. Why?
Because it an easy fix to the cooperate tax rates.

I get an instant 15% to the contribution margins just by decreasing the tax liability.
As far as union wages are concern, tell me again why a garbage man gets 80K/yr and has a golden retirement.

I left a suburb of Chicago in 97. I lived in a town that did even have full time police or fireman, yet my property tax was $7500/yr. Population....3600

What was I getting for that? nadda. When I looked at my tax break down, it was the school pensions, police pensions, city worker pensions and pay.


I was getting royally fucked. That why I moved south (no unions).
My house is the same size, my yard is a little larger, yet my current tax rate is $1200/yr
Thats an instant savings of $5300/yr for the first year, but it gets better.

My old neighbors are now struggling to pay their mortgage, because... you guest it, they current tax rate is now a whopping $11000/yr.

They are paying more in taxes than they do principal and interest combined......

To simply tax the working folks out of what ever problems arise is never a good solution. Eventually you get revolt. We founded this country on those principal, hence the reason to leave the King and England.
Tax without representation....


Who represents the middle class? We are getting fucked both ways.

Dem's think spending is the answer, but somebody eventually has to pay the tab.
Tax the businesses and they just past the cost on to the consumer, or leave the area of high taxes.

Take a look at what the North used to have in jobs, the majority have left the high taxed high wage north and have moved to free right to work states of the sun belt.

The company I now consult for started off in a suburb of Chicago and moved the plant to break the union.
Guess where we are now?

Missisiipi.........

An instant profit margin of 25% when full burden costs are calculated from the union north vs the south.
Pretty easy decision in my book.

So the north and unions in their greed would not make concessions, and they lost wages and a tax base.
In spite of the union leaders telling the employee's they would stand by them, they actually through them under the bus.....



You can't win a social war on wealth distribution, it never works. Those with wealth will leave if taxed beyond reason or find shelters to offset the tax liability.

The Dem's just think the wealthy will roll over and pay. When has this ever worked?

Eventually they will learn, but I fear a lot more working folks will get fucked in the deal before its over.

I hide my money in every tax advantage I can take, even in foreign countries. Until the government starts spending with accountability that actually helps the people instead of special interests, I'll pay as little as possible.

Fuck'em.....thats my moto............

[Leedawg]

Great discussion gents. 

[flatlander]

I'm not really on the far left. I'm no socialist or communist. I'm a moderate liberal who served my country. Somehow or another in the past 30 years, however, the American political climate has shifted so far to the right that I am now considered a far left nut-job Commie Socialist anti-American because of my political views. Go figure. 



Maybe you guys should think about this just a bit. Or not. 

Phil,
I don't think you're a "nut-job commie socialist"...I just think you're a "nut-job", which seems fair since you called me an "asshole". 

Using your logic, I don't think it's fair to paint conservatives (those who favor less government) as whackos who want to throw the elderly and the poor out on the streets. 

[Gofisher]

Whoa, I've been away too long...Phil's packing heat now?? What the hell is up with that? 

[troutboy_II]

TP - Gosh, we've missed you!

You correctly pointed out that I went door to door for Mr. Obama in the primaries and the general election.  I fully admit to having been impressed with his rhetoric and positions on many points that I thought were important to our country.  I still think his positions were valid, but I have been discouraged by the follow through.  I could "blame" either side of the aisle and make pretty decent argument to support my blame, but I think the issue is whether or not Mr. Obama has shown the leadership that I thought he was capable of and what our country so desperately needs.  In my humble opinion, he has failed in that pursuit.  Whether I vote for him again or not will depend on the alternatives.

And speaking of alternatives, where would we be on Libya if Mr. McCain had bee elected instead?  See:

www.kgun9.com/Global/story.asp?S=14189149 

Had Mr McCain been elected, would he have done differently?  It does not appear so.

Like you, I often feel disappointed by Washington, but I don't have a good alternative to Washington, so I will continue to seek out what I believe (not just "think" - belief is part of the decision process here) is the best candidate(s) and vote for them.  I spite of your continued misinformation, I am neither Dem nor Repub.  I am an Independent in search of a great leader.  Apparently, I still have not found one, but I'll keep looking.  And yes, I will be usually be left of you and many on this board, but I still think I'm a "center left", not "liberal".  You on the other hand appear to be right of Attila the Hun, but that is your prerogative.

I guess bottom line, I'll probably still cancel your vote.   -0-

I think it is fine and our right to complain about our elected "leaders", but I'd rather see you suggest some new choices for real leadership change.  That is the kind of "change" this voter is still looking for.  This board enjoys a good bitch session, so I don't expect to see anything else, but wouldn't it be interesting if we had some real leaders from either party that we could debate over? 

My $.02

TB

[diaz dassie]

I ask once more... WHO will be the savior of America?

Ask no more, a Canadian Wrestler called Chris Jericho

[Phil]

"I ask once more... WHO will be the savior of America? "

No one that I can see presently. It appears that we are screwed with a capital "F."

[flatlander]

"I ask once more... WHO will be the savior of America? "

No one that I can see presently. It appears that we are screwed with a capital "F."

I can't see Obama losing in 2012.

[Phil]

Me neither, and I'm not happy about it. 

I'll amend my earlier post, Flatliner. I won't call you an asshole. I'll just say that you were being an asshole.