Steelhead in VA

[Mudwall Gatewood 3.0]

Fellow Hokie, please be warned.  That area of the Jackson has rattlesnakes that are some of the latest to return to the den.  They seem to have an unusual ability to survive a few killing frosts.  Plus, the area is overrun with coyotes, many of which are reported to be aggressive.  Also, there is a "family" of squatters surviving in the area.  Hikers, anglers, etc. have seen them, but only fleetingly, as they disappear in the bush.  No one has any idea of their ID or how many there are.

I am not sure if a planted holdover or lake-run fish is worth the risk.

[Dougfish]

Fellow Hokie, please be warned.  That area of the Jackson has rattlesnakes that are some of the latest to return to the den.  They seem to have an unusual ability to survive a few killing frosts.  Plus, the area is overrun with coyotes, many of which are reported to be aggressive.  Also, there is a "family" of squatters surviving in the area.  Hikers, anglers, etc. have seen them, but only fleetingly, as they disappear in the bush.  No one has any idea of their ID or how many there are.

I am not sure if a planted holdover or lake-run fish is worth the risk.

I ain't afeard. Sounds like WV jokes. Started by WVians to keep Yankees out.

[Big J]

I'll hit it in a month and throw up a report. 

Give me call sometime before you go fish it if you need someone to tag along.  I've been wanting to make the hall out there for a while now.

[Mudwall Gatewood 3.0]

Nope, Yankees are of no concern.  They bring $, willing to part with it, and are easily bamboozled. 

Very neat region and I have seen many interesting things in that gorge, both natural and unnatural.  Binoculars were required when I was young and fished that reach, as well as the ravine to the west on Back Creek.  Fornication in the hemlocks was common, and with glass a kid could watch and learn from afar.  Is that considered peeping tomish?  I also witnessed a rainbow from the lake, I think, spawning with a brookie in the month of October.  No one seemed to believe me, but I did observe.  The area is particularly beautiful in the spring and fall.  Peace.

Yes, let me know as well -  when you're headed that way.  I hope Big J. can make it; I have a Book of Mormon for him.     

[benben reincarnated]

Fellow Hokie, please be warned.  That area of the Jackson has rattlesnakes that are some of the latest to return to the den.  They seem to have an unusual ability to survive a few killing frosts.  Plus, the area is overrun with coyotes, many of which are reported to be aggressive.  Also, there is a "family" of squatters surviving in the area.  Hikers, anglers, etc. have seen them, but only fleetingly, as they disappear in the bush.  No one has any idea of their ID or how many there are.

I am not sure if a planted holdover or lake-run fish is worth the risk.

I ain't afeard. Sounds like WV jokes. Started by WVians to keep Yankees out.

Be sure to add lions, tigers and bears to the list to ensure outsiders are as leery as possible.

[Dougfish]

Yes, let me know as well -  when you're headed that way.  I hope Big J. can make it; I have a Book of Mormon for him.     

I'll do that, Bath Co. boy. Maybe I'll start packing some heat? Big J can speak for himself, BTW.

[robspe7370]

Not to rain on you guys parade, but I hope you guys are not expecting great lakes size steelhead. They don't get to be big just because they have steelhead tendencies(genes are virtually identical to resident rainbows). The GL fish spend years feeding on Smelt,Alewives,Lamprey and other bait fish. Moomaw does not have anything like that to offer. I will admit to being intrigued by the idea, but would have much rather seen state resources allocated to expanding the current range of our native salmonid the brook trout.

[Mudwall Gatewood 3.0]

GA, some may be wishing for large steelhead, but personally I am more interested in the subtleties of the endeavor and if it will succeed or not.  I am not sure how much the state could expand the range of our brook trout, other than applying band aids to current illnesses like acid deposition in some of our waters.   I know there are a handful of spring-creek-like situations in your Shenandoah Valley area that historically may have had brookies.  But imho this entire valley is so environmentally screwed from agricultural practices that zeroing in on individual cold water tribs for reintroduction of brookies doesn't add up. 
 
I have no problem with the state fish-heads playing mad scientist with this water system.  The Back Creek watershed and the lower Jackson are well impounded and will never return to their natural form.  It is what it is.

[Big J]

Not to rain on you guys parade, but I hope you guys are not expecting great lakes size steelhead. They don't get to be big just because they have steelhead tendencies(genes are virtually identical to resident rainbows). The GL fish spend years feeding on Smelt,Alewives,Lamprey and other bait fish. Moomaw does not have anything like that to offer. I will admit to being intrigued by the idea, but would have much rather seen state resources allocated to expanding the current range of our native salmonid the brook trout.

I don't think anyone is expecting great lake size steelhead.  It is just something to add diversity to VA's fly fishing.  As far as expanding the brook trout range, I think the state just needs to maintain what it has now.  There are several brook trout streams that are in need of some restoration.  I know in north GA, TU hires high school and college students for the whole summer to do nothing but restore brook trout streams (making undercuts, bigger pools, removing log jams, etc).  I wish it was a program that other states would use. 

[Mudwall Gatewood 3.0]

I wish it was a program that other states would use.

While I admire the youthful effort of high schoolers and college kids, under the guidance of TU, THIS is exactly what we don't need.  There are probably a dozen people in the entire country that truly understands small stream hydrology.  I am exaggerating, but there are few compared to those that think they know what a brook trout stream should look like.  And I don't believe there are any authorities within TU.  Perhaps I am wrong.  You mention removing log jams.  Things like this should never be done.  Repair the riparian zone, do as much as you can to repair watersheds, THEN let the stream be.
I have personally seen streams harmed by good attention when it comes to habitat improvement.  Heck, I was even part of it years ago.  We had no idea what we were doing, just stuff that we thought made sense and looked good.  We were Clueless and should have employed the advice of someone.  But stream habitat management is both a science and an art I believe and there are darned few artists out there.
Not calling you out Big J, just making a point.  Peace.

[Big J]

I wish it was a program that other states would use.

While I admire the youthful effort of high schoolers and college kids, under the guidance of TU, THIS is exactly what we don't need.  There are probably a dozen people in the entire country that truly understands small stream hydrology.  I am exaggerating, but there are few compared to those that think they know what a brook trout stream should look like.  And I don't believe there are any authorities within TU.  Perhaps I am wrong.  You mention removing log jams.  Things like this should never be done.  Repair the riparian zone, do as much as you can to repair watersheds, THEN let the stream be.
I have personally seen streams harmed by good attention when it comes to habitat improvement.  Heck, I was even part of it years ago.  We had no idea what we were doing, just stuff that we thought made sense and looked good.  We were Clueless and should have employed the advice of someone.  But stream habitat management is both a science and an art I believe and there are darned few artists out there.
Not calling you out Big J, just making a point.  Peace.

Well the program I'm speaking of in Georgia is run by a guy that works as a game warden and has some sort of biology college background I believe.  He is a hardcore brookie fly fisherman and has pretty much dedicated his whole summer to heading up this program.  TU just funds it from what I understand.  TU pays for these kids lodging, food, etc, and then they go out each day with the guy I mentioned and do work.  He has been doing it for a while and is very well educated for this from what I've been told. 

[Big J]

Here is the PDF of how it started out.  This PDF is from back in 2006.

http://www.easternbrooktrout.org/docs/EBTJV_Georgia_CS.pdf

I believe they are doing things right.  EBTJV started it it looks like, but from what I found out two summers ago, the Georgia Wildlife Dept has really taken it over and TU does the heavy funding.

[benben reincarnated]

Here is the PDF of how it started out.  This PDF is from back in 2006.

http://www.easternbrooktrout.org/docs/EBTJV_Georgia_CS.pdf

I believe they are doing things right.  EBTJV started it it looks like, but from what I found out two summers ago, the Georgia Wildlife Dept has really taken it over and TU does the heavy funding.

Keep me posted on when they get that GIS genetics layer finished...I would love to catch a southern-strain brookie in my native home state.

[Big J]

I actually have the name of the guy who runs the program and his phone number written down on a Georgia map somewhere in my Jeep along with a few streams he recommended.  I'll have to give him a call sometime.  The Genetic sampling of the streams should of been completed in 2010 and they should have some idea of which streams hold southern strain brook trout.  I'll shoot you a pm if I can get ahold of him.

[WRector]

I wish it was a program that other states would use.

While I admire the youthful effort of high schoolers and college kids, under the guidance of TU, THIS is exactly what we don't need.  There are probably a dozen people in the entire country that truly understands small stream hydrology.  I am exaggerating, but there are few compared to those that think they know what a brook trout stream should look like.  And I don't believe there are any authorities within TU.  Perhaps I am wrong.  You mention removing log jams.  Things like this should never be done.  Repair the riparian zone, do as much as you can to repair watersheds, THEN let the stream be.
I have personally seen streams harmed by good attention when it comes to habitat improvement.  Heck, I was even part of it years ago.  We had no idea what we were doing, just stuff that we thought made sense and looked good.  We were Clueless and should have employed the advice of someone.  But stream habitat management is both a science and an art I believe and there are darned few artists out there.
Not calling you out Big J, just making a point.  Peace.

Mud,

I am pretty familiar with the restoration work you speak of strictly from a NC and SC perspective.  I think it is important to note that the practices that were being implemented 10, heck even 5 years ago, are outdated and much has been learned throughout this whole process.  There is no doubt in my mind that bank stabilization and stream restoration practices have reduced the amount of in-stream erosion that has occurred due to our current watershed development practices.  Have they had a negative effect in some cases, you bet, but too many folks look at this a short term fix. ( i.e. we did this great stream restoration project, spent millions of dollars and the bugs haven't come back)  It may take 10, 20, even 50 years, but the long term effect of those projects will certainly have a positive effect on the whole as long as they are managed correctly. 

I am of the belief that the watershed approach is the way of the future, and you will see more of a focus in the smaller tributaries where we can actually make a difference when it comes to agricultural pollutants and buffer encroachments and it starts with education of our current and future generations.  Anything we can do to spread the word is a positive in my opinion.

Sorry to sound so preachy as that it not my intent...  Just throwing in a little of my perception, since I am down here on the front lines here in SC, where if we had half the funding that NC and VA do, we might actually get something accomplished.

If the restoration practices of yesterday did anything, I think it inspired a new generation / subset of engineers, landscape architects, and biologist to take a closer look at what can be done to reverse the southward trend of our degrading waterways.