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I Thought This Was Pretty Cool......

Started by jscagline, October 05, 2007, 22:58:26 PM

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jscagline

The truth hurts but not as much as a gas guzzling, eco wrecking SUV hitting you at 100 MPH!  Yeah baby, yeah!

peter p

The Park used the same "the fish are going to die" theory when they came up with their new brook trout policy.  Mother Nature is going to kill them eventually so we might as well let people do it.  Everything is going to eventually die.  That doesn't mean we should abuse a resource.

That aside, I thought the info was very interesting.  Thanks for the link

Peter

phg

I think they are making a pretty good case of the fact that most people are worrying too much about it.  The rest of this season, and next may see smaller wild trout, but, if we don't destroy the environment trying to help them, they'll recover.  The streams I've visited this month have all shown good general health in spite of the low water conditions.

The simple fact of the matter is, humans are lousy predators.  Heck, biologists now even admit that it was rats, not man, that drove the dodo to extinction.  We do all our damage by cutting down trees, damming up rivers, spilling toxic chemicals and introducing invasive species.


jscagline

Quote from: phg on October 06, 2007, 10:21:37 AM

....We do all our damage by cutting down trees, damming up rivers, spilling toxic chemicals and introducing invasive species.

....amen!

The truth hurts but not as much as a gas guzzling, eco wrecking SUV hitting you at 100 MPH!  Yeah baby, yeah!

Trout Maharishi

October 06, 2007, 11:43:59 AM #4 Last Edit: October 07, 2007, 16:40:57 PM by Trout Maharishi

What do you expect a guide to say? All the fish are dead and the streams are dry don't come to the Smokys fishing? Second hand information, no hard facts like fish count numbers from this year and the previous years to compare to back up his opinion, I ain't buying it. When the water gets as low as it is in addition to the obvious problems of low O-2 and high water temps, big fish eat little fish and predators have a field day on the remaining trout. The argument that a certain percentage die each year is correct. I still believe the conditions will have more of an impact than he thinks. You will have less sexually mature fish to spawn, and alot of the small trout have been eaten and will not be available to take their place for the next couple years. The fish count numbers for the year were not complete when this article was written. We will not know for certain how much of an impact this drought has really had until the numbers from this year and the next couple of years have been completed for comparison. Since I'm sure alot of you haven't actually been to the park in a while I'm including a link with some photos from the LRO forum to let you see just how bad it is. Also take a look at trout chaser's photo from SNP and tell me this drought hasn't had any effect on trout population.

http://littleriveroutfitters.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9018

There's more B.S. in fly fishing than there is in a Kansas feedlot.

Lefty Kreh

troutdawg

Quote from: Trout Maharishi on October 06, 2007, 11:43:59 AM

What do you expect a guide to say? All the fish are dead and the streams are dry don't come to the Smokey's fishing?

No, I would not.  However, if you look at the LRO forum and page, they get pretty close to saying that.  At least they don't take down the pics that show it.  I knew I liked those guys.  Makes me want to buzz over there and buy some stuff from them.


Trout Maharishi

October 06, 2007, 12:03:38 PM #6 Last Edit: October 06, 2007, 12:07:34 PM by Trout Maharishi

Dawg,

Byron and Paula have shown common sense and restraint despite potential economic loss, real class if you ask me. :) Their focus has been on the long term preservation of the fishery.

There's more B.S. in fly fishing than there is in a Kansas feedlot.

Lefty Kreh

castaway

Obviously whatever any of us say at this point is speculation.  The real answers will come during the next two years, not during our discussion, no matter how interesting it may be.

The only real experience I recall with this issue was some time back what we had a really severe drought.  Virtually no water anywhere in one of my favorite mountain streams.  I don't mean trickles, I mean dry rocks.  A few pools stood stagnant.  Everybody, myself included, was thinking doom and gloom--no reason to come back to fish those dried up waters for two or three years at least.

However, I did go back the next year, and the fishing wasn't OK--it was fantastic!  While the populations did seem a bit smaller, the fish were far bigger than usual.  My assumption is that because a lot of fish died, there was that much more fish for the survivors.  Nature finds a way as long as we don't go blocking the road!!


9ft4wt

While I would love to see some rain and sooner rather than later for Brook trout there is another positve about the drought, specially in areas which are prone to acid runoff.

Rains washes acidic deposition into the creeks. During periods of drought this does not happen and the pH of the stream improves. So, when the brookies spawn, the eggs and fry have a much better chance of surviving through the winter in the gravel.

In addtion, many redds are lost or damaged by high water flows.

The St. Mary's in Virginia basically lost an entire year class in 2006 do to high winter and early spring floods.

9ft4wt


Psycho_Fisher

Rainfall for Chattanooga is nearly 17 inches below normal this year and is 33 inches below normal for the period since January 2005, National Weather Service hydrologist Brian Boyd said. In more than 100 years of record-keeping, this degree of drought is unprecedented, he said.

"Nobody has seen it like this before," said Mr. Boyd, who works in the Morristown, Tenn., office of the National Weather Service. "Hopefully we'll have a wet winter, but I think for now it looks slightly warmer and drier than normal."

We saw consecutive years of drought in 95-97 if I'm remembering.. and the next 3 years we caught plenty of fish; but they were all young.  Mature fish were few and far between for several years, particularly when comparing to the ~average fish~ we caught  in the 1st half of the decade.

We've not seen a drought of this magnitude since 84-86 though: I was in MT those years, thus I'm fortunate enough not to remember what it was like.  However, I moved to Chattavegas in 90', and the fishing was fantastic so it (apparently) didn't take long for them to rebound... from that drought. (the current drought is a different, dryer beast)

Seeing that it's the dryest, hottest drought recorded in 100+ years of record keeping (that's what they're saying in my part of TN), none of us really have any idea how the fish will do... like stated above: it's all hypothesis & speculation.  ???

Tight Lines & Put-Em-Back!

lipripper

The mountain streams are relly hurting. I've had to stay in the tailwaters lately.I Hope we get some rain soon.

lr

Stone-Man

Well spoken --GURU --

I don't think that anyone should be fishing the high mtn streams now. Especially the guides.

Psycho and I spoke about this on the phone last night and also concur.

I have looked at several of my favorite small streams in E Tenn. And I am telling you this -  The trout are dead and eaten ---- Period.
The only current survivors are a few 1 inch trout minnows that are in the tiny remaining pools.

Stone Man



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