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Perplexing Brookie Stream

Started by Big J, March 31, 2019, 18:16:36 PM

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Big J

Fished a west sloper that has been on my radar, but haven't been overly enthusiast to fish.  Doug on the other hand has and he finally perked my curiosity enough to give it a try.  70 degree day.  Good water levels.  Pretty water, bottom structure, and gradient. Tons of bugs coming off water.  Just poor fish populations as far as I can tell.  I didn't see or spook any fish.  No fish rising anywhere.  Caught two small brookies, but had to really work for them.  Not sure what the issue was, maybe stream PH levels.  Really was a head scratcher.

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Did catch about 50 dace which is never a good sign on trout waters.

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Cool old structure.  Think it was an old church.

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This water not having healthy trout kills me.

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Onslow

West slope as in west side of the BR, or west slope as in Mississippi drainage?


The Dude

Low summertime flows is the limiting factor, if I had to venture a guess.

I was born by the river in a little tent,<br />And just like the river I've been running ever since,<br />It's been a long, long time coming,<br />But I know change is gonna come.

Big J

Quote from: Onslow on April 01, 2019, 07:00:02 AM

West slope as in west side of the BR, or west slope as in Mississippi drainage?

West side of BR

Quote from: The Dude on April 01, 2019, 07:24:49 AM

Low summertime flows is the limiting factor, if I had to venture a guess.

And possible with all west slope streams. This one just had a lot of 4ft+ holes that would seem to support trout and a fair amount of springs feeding it. Might be a temp issue though.


Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

The fact that you have record/photo of Paraleptophlebia  (probably) adoptiva reveals OK water temps in your “perplexing” stream (critter likes cooler waters).  Unless your specimen came from a trib to your puzzling creek â€" well --- then you have another interrogation of the story.

"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

Search alkalinity/acid deposition data on this stream from UVA’s/TU’s work, and underlying geological strata.  Good luck with the search.  Data and proximity of this water to other streams suffering from deposition problems might tell you a story.

"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Dougfish

April 01, 2019, 10:17:48 AM #6 Last Edit: April 02, 2019, 08:36:05 AM by Dougfish

My money is on higher low pH.

I had hopes for this good looker. But some breathren streams to the north have bona fide pH issues.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? " -Oddball, 1970

"I don't wanna go to hell,
But if I do,
It'll be 'cause of you..."
Strange Desire, The Black Keys, 2006

The Dude

Interesting.  I think I have a mental block in my head that can't fathom high pH in VA blue ridge outside of acid mine discharge - especially when compared to WNC.  Maybe that mindset is a bit too shallow and wide.  Good to know.

I was born by the river in a little tent,<br />And just like the river I've been running ever since,<br />It's been a long, long time coming,<br />But I know change is gonna come.

Dougfish

Quote

Interesting.  I think I have a mental block in my head that can't fathom high pH in VA blue ridge outside of acid mine discharge - especially when compared to WNC.  Maybe that mindset is a bit too shallow and wide.  Good to know.

I was brain dead when I typed that. I meant low. Acid. Looow buffering capacity.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? " -Oddball, 1970

"I don't wanna go to hell,
But if I do,
It'll be 'cause of you..."
Strange Desire, The Black Keys, 2006

Big J

Quote from: Dougfish on April 02, 2019, 08:38:02 AM

Quote

Interesting.  I think I have a mental block in my head that can't fathom high pH in VA blue ridge outside of acid mine discharge - especially when compared to WNC.  Maybe that mindset is a bit too shallow and wide.  Good to know.

I was brain dead when I typed that. I meant low. Acid. Looow buffering capacity.

I talked with Mudwall and he had a good laugh at your high PH comment.  He let you slide Doug.  Another note is they use to mine for iron ore back there which is another sign of bedrock that plays a factor in the low buffering capacity.  That whole west slope is just bad juju for trout.


Dougfish

I have some solid good fishing iron ore associated streams. Jus sayin.

It's the water source and the geology. That whole basalt, granite, silicate rock thing is real.

Yah, I suk.

"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? " -Oddball, 1970

"I don't wanna go to hell,
But if I do,
It'll be 'cause of you..."
Strange Desire, The Black Keys, 2006

The Dude

Quote from: Dougfish on April 02, 2019, 09:01:51 AM

That whole basalt, granite, silicate rock thing is real.

That is all we have in WNC, but the streams still seem to fish better than what you experienced.  There must be more to it than that.

I was born by the river in a little tent,<br />And just like the river I've been running ever since,<br />It's been a long, long time coming,<br />But I know change is gonna come.

Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

Quote from: The Dude on April 02, 2019, 09:11:09 AM

Quote from: Dougfish on April 02, 2019, 09:01:51 AM

That whole basalt, granite, silicate rock thing is real.

That is all we have in WNC, but the streams still seem to fish better than what you experienced.  There must be more to it than that.

There is likely "more to it than that".  It may be a latitude, temporal acid deposition, western wind pattern thing.  There are streams within rock-throwing distance to J and Doug's barren water that historically had some of Virginia's best brookie fishing.  They with their siliciclastic underbelly lost most of their ANC and their ecosystem faltered (fish, invertebrates, periphytic growth).

WNC vs mid-VA deposition patterns and loads over the last 100 years would be interesting for someone to investigate.

"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

jwgnc

Had to Google ANC: acid neutralizing capacity.

Stalk softly and carry a green stick.

itieuglyflies

And I thought ANC meant- Another Nasty Comment



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