Author Topic: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study  (Read 422 times)

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Offline Woolly Bugger

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The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« on: December 07, 2018, 15:25:03 PM »
George Palmer gave us an update on the Smith River Fishery based upon this year's samplings. The more constant flows may be helping growth rates in the upper river, but higher temperatures on the lower fishery have led to a lower catch rate.

Here are all the details,



and to answer the final question, stay-tuned for next month's Smith River TU meeting where the next presenter will be addressing those issues in detail.

 
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 12:54:37 PM by Woolly Bugger »


Online Al

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2018, 12:24:57 PM »
Thanks for posting this Woolly - makes my job of summing it up much easier.  As he says upper river seems to be doing well. Lower river not so well. Stay tuned.

FYI - Assuming the flows remain constant, ie 750 cfs most of the time, anyone who would like to accompany the DGIF crew as they sample is welcome to do so. I will get a heads up when they plan to sample and post it somewhere here on the board - all you need is your own float, ie a kayak or canoe. Don't worry about a shuttle - we'll figure that out at the ramp.

Offline Woolly Bugger

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2018, 16:29:02 PM »
here is a PDF of the presentation; slides and notes...


Offline Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2018, 17:11:13 PM »
From the Summary of Upper SR:  “Appears diets are changing.”

Any elucidation from the biologists on this statement?   

Online streamereater_101691

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2018, 18:32:12 PM »
Pulled these graphs of both last year and this years summer temps and flow. Interestingly enough the temps at the dam were lower this year until the hurricane hit and mixed the lake water. The exact opposite of what I would of thought since the sluice gate is much lower than the generator intake. Crazy that consistent 300-350cfs flows kept basset below 66 degrees all summer last year and pulses of(at lower temperature) 750cfs let the gauge top 70 degrees.  So I did more investigating. Surprisingly, 2014 generation showed similar temps with 2 generators running as did 2017 with consistent sluicing. I would of liked to heard george's opinion given his years of findings on the smith river trout condition. Understanding these graphs probably show no statistical significant evidence, I'm still reminded we are dealing with a man made artificial fishery.

I urge someone to find another 30+ mile tailwater with the smith size drainage with our climate. Seems to be a double edge sword. A healthy, natural reproducing tailwater above martinsville at ~650cfs, or bigger fish down low at ~1500cfs with the upper river fish not having enough food as its been ever since walleye were introduced into the lake.

Maybe the corps would sluice some during the summer to keep temps down in the lower river if the guide curve allows?..food for thought..

Nevertheless I'm excited to see what happens to the upper river the next few years at 650cfs. Is it too early to pray for a variable speed turbine?

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2014 was normal generation

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Offline Dougfish

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2018, 18:49:15 PM »
The Smith tailwater is an anomaly. 30 miles of trout.
The Jackson, 18 miles.
South Holston, 14 miles.
Watuga, 17 miles.
All have there individual challenges. All artificial.
Is there a longer tailwater trout fishery in the east?
"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? "
-Oddball, 1970

Offline Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2018, 21:05:08 PM »
The Smith tailwater is an anomaly. 30 miles of trout.
The Jackson, 18 miles.
South Holston, 14 miles.
Watuga, 17 miles.
All have there individual challenges. All artificial.
Is there a longer tailwater trout fishery in the east?


West Branch Delaware with ~ 12 miles, added to ~ 30 miles of East Branch tailwater, then add main Delaware’s ~30 miles ------ over 70 miles of potential artificial trout waters.
Longer if summed, I suppose, and if you consider NY the east.

Offline Dougfish

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2018, 21:24:40 PM »
Considerable, Sir. The Delaware is a beast.
But, lets concentrate on one branch. The drainage of each branch of the Delaware probably dwarfs the rivers I listed. (Where is Ken when you need him?)
And lets consider the Smith is in the warmer Southeast.
The Delaware is in the cooler northeast. 
Lets not confuse the drinking water of NYC for the drinking water of Henry County.
"Why don't you knock it off with them negative waves? Why don't you dig how beautiful it is out here? Why don't you say something righteous and hopeful for a change? "
-Oddball, 1970

Offline Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2018, 21:43:28 PM »
What about the Cumberland tailwater in KY?  --- over 70 miles.   All trout water?

Yes Ken, give us some figures.

Offline Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #9 on: December 12, 2018, 10:58:51 AM »
<Upper SR overall condition of brown trout seems much improved and appears diets are changing.>

  This seems like the most enthralling information.  Did I miss some “diet” stuff in the presentation?  Again I will ask - what did the biologist say – did anyone contribute to or question the changing diet statement?  Are there data, even anecdotal evidence, suggesting the shift in diet of the upper fishes?   Surely someone at the meeting asked, or were you tanked-up or exceedingly somber over the lower river news or both, or during the summary were you dreaming, fantasizing of downriver monster browns, cleaning your sink-tips, and tying lures that could be cast on any ultra-light spinning outfit?

Offline Big J

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #10 on: December 12, 2018, 11:50:04 AM »
<Upper SR overall condition of brown trout seems much improved and appears diets are changing.>

  This seems like the most enthralling information.  Did I miss some “diet” stuff in the presentation?  Again I will ask - what did the biologist say – did anyone contribute to or question the changing diet statement?  Are there data, even anecdotal evidence, suggesting the shift in diet of the upper fishes?   Surely someone at the meeting asked, or were you tanked-up or exceedingly somber over the lower river news or both, or during the summary were you dreaming, fantasizing of downriver monster browns, cleaning your sink-tips, and tying lures that could be cast on any ultra-light spinning outfit?

Go fish a brookie stream.
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end." Hemingway

Offline Big J

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #11 on: December 12, 2018, 12:00:40 PM »
I am still searching for those brookie retirement Shangri-Las.  New reaches of familiar streams and new watersheds are paying dividends.   Several small and medium brookies and rainbows lower down made a hot August Sunday morning enjoyable.  Mother Nature’s slice of the Allegheny Highlands is providing numerous settings to hide from the Mrs. when we retire.   
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end." Hemingway

Offline Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #12 on: December 12, 2018, 12:35:02 PM »
If Fin was in the audience, I bet he asked about diet.  Doug was drinking/ingesting, Al was napping, the Boss was well-oiled, over-oiled  ----  so, I may never get a response.
   
The synergy of an impending first grandson, the encircling of conservatives whom all have made a Faustian bargain with our chief, the unwelcomed holiday gobbledygook, and a Mrs. begging for a new floor has dampened my resolve.

Thank you J, for opening the wound even more, with the recap of my now unattainable retirement dreams.  Santa does not think you are naughty or nice.  He just thinks you are a peckerwood.   

Offline Big J

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #13 on: December 12, 2018, 12:49:42 PM »

Thank you J, for opening the wound even more, with the recap of my now unattainable retirement dreams.  Santa does not think you are naughty or nice.  He just thinks you are a peckerwood.   


Any time pal!
"It is good to have an end to journey toward; but it is the journey that matters, in the end." Hemingway

Offline Fin

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Re: The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly: 2018 Smith River Study
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2018, 13:08:10 PM »
Quote
Did I miss some “diet” stuff in the presentation?

I don't think I've met a retiree yet that didn't nap half the day away.  Take a look at the 34 minute mark of the presentation.  Diet discussion.  You must have drifted off for a minute.  My take away is that the crawfish seem to be doing better (higher temps?).  Many of the browns sacrificed in the name of science had crawfish in their gut.  This is a big change from the past.  Still not many baitfish showing up though.  If I remember correctly, aquatic critters #1 food source, #2, neck and neck were terrestrials and crawfish.  Sound right Dougy? 
« Last Edit: December 12, 2018, 13:16:31 PM by Fin »