Fake News

[Mudwall Gatewood 3.0]

You are the one who starts the silly heckling contests.  You are an expert on churchgoing/religion, and scouts, but appear to only fraternize with a small handful of churchgoers, and are presumably not affiliated with the BSA in any capacity. 

You pretend that Venturing (bsa) and Sea scouting (bsa), Girl Scouts (non bsa) does not exist by failing to acknowledge them.  By doing so, you are diminishing the value of the girl scouts, and the Coed BSA programs.  You are part of the bias problem.  No amount of vacuous posturing will change this.

You are absolutely correct; I know little about any young men's clubs, including the BSA, and I presently associate with very few "churchgoers".  There was a time, however, I was smothered by the believers; I still have the little Methodist pins for never missing a Sunday, but thank goodness my skeptical brain disabled the nonsense around age 18.

What I do believe is that any small policy modification can start or advance what I feel is a much needed cultural change, and this recent BSA action may very well be a minor forward step in improving the notion that girls need to learn to interact with boys and boys need to learn to interact with girls.  Ah yes, they interact now, in schools, at school events, in your churches, in malls, etc, but if anyone thinks these interactions are entirely healthy then they are blind, visually and mentally.  It would seem that every BSA leader would welcome the challenge of this policy change, BECAUSE you all tout the BSA's virtues of character building and life skills, and you have your God on your side. 

Why are some of the BSA folks nervous?  Are you frightened by the hormonal mixing and likely sexual tension?  This makes me think of the ending of A Few Good Men.  There should be few if any problems with boys and girls sharing the BSA life.  You have rules, and those rules are always maintained or the young folks are demoted, deleted, punished, correct?  So there should be no problem of Jeff poking Jane in the tent after dark, or Mary giving Mark his first hummer down by the creek before the Dutch oven breakfast.  Your rules and leadership will ascertain and correct any and all indiscretions, correct?  Or is your trepidation from simple added responsibility and adjustment?  Or over "boy" in Boy Scouts, which was applied in 1910, 8 years before the 19th Amendment?  Sweet!; we've come far but not far enough!

Ken, you are also correct that I prompt the "contests" and you and others elect to play.  In turn, true colors are exposed.  You are correct again on the "bias", guilty as charged, and I am part of your "problem"; I am part of many problems, but maybe, just maybe, I don't see your "problem" as a problem.  Perhaps I see it as an open-minded step, a challenge to you and others that could be embraced.

John is only half accurate.   You can't win, but the Scouts did. 

Voluntary suggestion:  If you feel I have unfairly solicited the "silly heckling contests", then stop allowing me to goad you and others into responding.  Or, you can have "the Boss" kick my ass to the curb.  If I was not technologically challenged, I would have 7.6 billion others to provoke and annoy so indifference rules and no skin off my back.   

PS:  Big J is full of crap!  Men do not cry enough these days!!!!  More of that macho bullshit!!!  But he's likely onto something with his hypothesis that the gals might toughen up the boys.

[Grannyknot]

You are the one who starts the silly heckling contests.

Ken, you are also correct that I prompt the "contests" and you and others elect to play.

[Beetle]

What I do believe is that any small policy modification can start or advance what I feel is a much needed cultural change

Hey Kool-Aid!   Drink up everyone!     

At the University of Oregon, for instance, students are invited to attend a "healthy masculinities conference" where they will "engage in collective imagining to construct new futures for masculinities, unrestricted by power, privilege, and oppression."

Ithaca College will host a workshop on "masculinity and violence" during its MLK Week celebrations, where students will "examine hegemonic masculinity and its role as the wheel that rotates a cycle of violence" while empowering "willing individuals to begin to recognize, acknowledge, own, and disrupt the toxicity of manhood in order to end violence."

Duke University's "Men's Project," meanwhile, is looking for applicants for a "nine-week long discussion group" that will also "examine the ways we present -- or don't present -- our masculinities, so we can better understand how masculinity exists on our campus -- often in toxic ways -- and begin the work of unlearning violence."  "We want to explore, dissect, and construct an intersectional understanding of masculinity and maleness, as well as to create destabilized spaces for those with privilege," a description of the program explains. "Duke is an environment where some are rarely made uncomfortable while others are made to bear the weight of their identities on a daily basis -- we aim to flip that paradigm."

Higher education's crusade to eradicate masculine white men continues in the Ivy League. Since March, Princeton University recently filled an opening for a very particular position — Interpersonal Violence Clinician and Men's Engagement Manager.
The position, which is part of the campuses SHARE office (Sexual Harassment/Assault Advising, Resources, and Education), "works closely with a network of campus and community partners to foster a University environment that is intolerant of abuse, responsive to needs of survivors, and holds perpetrators accountable for their actions. We aim to contribute to a campus culture in which interpersonal violence has no place and our distinctive community of learning is free to flourish."

[Aka]

Since March, Princeton University recently filled an opening for a very particular position — Interpersonal Violence Clinician and Men's Engagement Manager.
The position, which is part of the campuses SHARE office (Sexual Harassment/Assault Advising, Resources, and Education), "works closely with a network of campus and community partners to foster a University environment that is intolerant of abuse, responsive to needs of survivors, and holds perpetrators accountable for their actions. We aim to contribute to a campus culture in which interpersonal violence has no place and our distinctive community of learning is free to flourish."

John, I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't see anything wrong in that.

[Beetle]

Since March, Princeton University recently filled an opening for a very particular position — Interpersonal Violence Clinician and Men's Engagement Manager.
The position, which is part of the campuses SHARE office (Sexual Harassment/Assault Advising, Resources, and Education), "works closely with a network of campus and community partners to foster a University environment that is intolerant of abuse, responsive to needs of survivors, and holds perpetrators accountable for their actions. We aim to contribute to a campus culture in which interpersonal violence has no place and our distinctive community of learning is free to flourish."

John, I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't see anything wrong in that.

i know Aaron.    In the old days these people were called "policemen".    Apologies for the use of this sexist, misogynystic term.

[Onslow]

Perhaps I see it as an open-minded step, a challenge to you and others that could be embraced.

Take your wife fishing, then we'll talk.

What I do believe is that any small policy modification can start or advance what I feel is a much needed cultural change, and this recent BSA action may very well be a minor forward step in improving the notion that girls need to learn to interact with boys and boys need to learn to interact with girls.

I suppose this would benefit sheltered home school types.

Ah yes, they interact now, in schools, at school events, in your churches, in malls, etc, but if anyone thinks these interactions are entirely healthy then they are blind, visually and mentally

Very strong assertion, but you don't give a reason why "anyone" is blind.  Please explain, specifically why male/female interactions at a BSA venue would be more enriching than those in a classroom in a public school, or Sunday school at church.

It would seem that every BSA leader would welcome the challenge of this policy change, BECAUSE you all tout the BSA's virtues of character building and life skills, and you have your God on your side. 

You went off the rails with the last eight words.  "On my honor, I will do my duty to God and my Country."  Hiner, are you a literalist?

Why are some of the BSA folks nervous?  Are you frightened by the hormonal mixing and likely sexual tension?

Yes, the thought of camping with an amorous middle aged female leaders scares me.  I've already have had to lead a trip with only one other adult leader, and said leader was female.

Or over "boy" in Boy Scouts, which was applied in 1910, 8 years before the 19th Amendment?

Every tribe, ethnic group, family, religion, gender, needs a safe space to interact with their own kind to decompress after interacting with the public.  That is precisely why you are here, Hiner.  Be open minded, forgiving, and understanding. 

[Dougfish]

I'm gonna take a knee over this bullshit!!!

[Aka]

Since March, Princeton University recently filled an opening for a very particular position — Interpersonal Violence Clinician and Men's Engagement Manager.
The position, which is part of the campuses SHARE office (Sexual Harassment/Assault Advising, Resources, and Education), "works closely with a network of campus and community partners to foster a University environment that is intolerant of abuse, responsive to needs of survivors, and holds perpetrators accountable for their actions. We aim to contribute to a campus culture in which interpersonal violence has no place and our distinctive community of learning is free to flourish."

John, I'm going to go ahead and say that I don't see anything wrong in that.

i know Aaron.    In the old days these people were called "policemen".    Apologies for the use of this sexist, misogynystic term.

Come on man, this is an advocacy role that makes sure that victims rights are being met and that people who suffer sexual assault don't fall through the cracks. I honestly can't see how anyone would think this was a bad thing. It's not the softening of America, it's people saying sexual assault is bullshit, that it persists in modern society, that it is a big problem on college campuses, and they are addressing with the seriousness that it deserves.

The role is responsible for:
Sexual Harassment/Assault Advising - I don't know any policemen that are also advisors to colleges...
Works closely with a network of campus and community partners to foster a University environment that is intolerant of abuse - Did police recently become project managers that build and maintain outreach programs that encompass universities, community members, and students?
Responsive to needs of survivors - Other than conducting interviews, investigating, and arresting offenders I'm not aware of any relationship that police have to survivors of sexual abuse. They don't provide counseling, avoidance training, self defense course etc. 
Holds perpetrators accountable for their actions Aside from arresting the abuser and potentially serving as a witness at trail police don't play a role in the administration of justice i.e. advocating for the victim in court, administering and enforcing the college's own code of conduct and penalties.

That role is not a policeman... If policeman could do the whole job there wouldn't be an issue with campus sexual assault.

How in the fuck is this position in any way, "Higher education's crusade to eradicate masculine white men..."?

[Mudwall Gatewood 3.0]

How in the fuck is this position in any way, "Higher education's crusade to eradicate masculine white men..."?

I am glad I vamoosed the circus of higher education when I did!  This newfangled "crusade" would surely grimace at ""Grab'em by the pussy".  Fun's all over for the white guys!  Odd that there's no mention of the dudes of color; does the brother get a free pass? 

John ain't got time for such foolishness.  He's applying for the new Interpersonal Classroom Attendance Clinician and Grade Merit Manager position at UNC. 

[Beetle]

Calm down Aaron.   I was poking fun at Hiner who can only retort with lame UNC jokes.   

[Mudwall Gatewood 3.0]

Calm down Aaron.   I was poking fun at Hiner who can only retort with lame UNC jokes.   

My previous post just earned me 3 credits at UNC!