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cornholed by ethanol?

Started by troutfanatic, June 03, 2015, 09:00:48 AM

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troutfanatic

Quote

Using the Environmental Protection Agency's own estimate, we calculate that the corn ethanol mandate has been worse for the climate than projected emissions from the controversial Keystone XL pipeline.

:o

more here:

http://www.ewg.org/agmag/2015/05/how-corn-ethanol-worse-climate-change-keystone-pipeline

thoughts on this?


benben reincarnated

Eh, one could alternatively argue that ethanol produced by corn is an infinite resource, oil is finite.  Also, I do believe that ethanol combustion produces less greenhouse gas than gasoline.


Woolly Bugger

trouble with corn as source for ethanol is that petrol is used in the farming, there are much better plants to use....

ex - I'm not going to live with you through one more fishing season!

me -There's a season?

Pastor explains icons to my son: you know like the fish symbol on the back of cars.

My son: My dad has two fish on his car and they're both trout!

sanjuanwormhatch

One day I'm going to familiarize myself with the ag laws, ag lobby, ag conspiracies of our country.  I feel like it's an industry rife with corruption and greed and all that good stuff that so easily hides behind "because without farmers you wouldn't have food" rather than say EBIL industries like energy and pharm (who as an aside could probably use the same argument).  But until that day comes I'll keep my mouth shut.  Butcept for that.


Dougfish

More land for corn for fuel = less land for food crops. Seen food prices going up over the last couple of years?

More farm subsides keep this sham rolling.

As California turns into a dust bowl, all of that vegetable and fruit production could shift to the fertile and wetter mid-west.

But no, that's corn and soybean land, says our government.


benben reincarnated

I like corn.  Grilled corn on the cob, cornbread, corn muffins, creamed corn, the list goes on.  Show me the corn!


natureboy

http://ethanolproducer.com/articles/10511/biochemtex-to-locate-cellulosic-biofuel-plant-in-n-c

Heard about this a few years ago, you all heard anything new on it, think it's in your neighborhood TF?

I'm pretty well resigned that corn ethanol is no good unless it's in a mason jar.  I usually go out of my way and pay a premium to buy ethanol free gas.  It takes land out of CRP, uses too much water, probably kicks up the price of food, isn't good for old or small engines, screws you on gas mileage...


sanjuanwormhatch

I would be all for and in fact would wish like hell that farming programs would help the mom and pops that are growing quality food but something tells me that's not happening.

Regarding cali, the whole lobby that says "food or minnows" (basically) referring to the smolt really pisses me off. 


bmadd

SJW, you are mostly right about the Ag industry being one of the most corrupt in our nation. Many forms of social welfare are hit upon hard at taking money away from US taxpayers. However, the ag industry is probably the biggest form of welfare that there is. Between subsidies (which were greatly reduced in the latest Ag bill), grants, tax credits, etc. ag business is probably worse than wall street. If you doubt that, see how many congressman are invested in Ag vs Wall St. Hell it even goes as far as Farm Credit services. Tax free lenders created to help small farmers that Congress has now allowed to loan money to non-Ag businesses as well as house loans that have land greater than 15 acres even if that land won't be used for ag purposes. I could go on more about that, but it's not the topic of this conversation.

Corn ethanol has been debunked by several non-government organizations for various reasons as being one the highest cost grains to produce ethanol, having a bigger impact on vehicles, lowest mpg, and most side effects at the grocery store. The grocery store effect is wider than just corn price. Corn used to be used highly in the production of feed for animals like cows and pigs. Notice how your meat prices have gone up as well as dairy products?

That being said, I like corn and I like Ag. I ate cornbread for breakfast. My biggest business is with ag producers. I worked in the ag business during high school and college. Most days I'd rather be back at that ag job then at my desk. But it's a funny business.


sanjuanwormhatch

Quote from: bmadd on June 03, 2015, 11:27:24 AM

SJW, you are mostly right about the Ag industry being one of the most corrupt in our nation. Many forms of social welfare are hit upon hard at taking money away from US taxpayers. However, the ag industry is probably the biggest form of welfare that there is. Between subsidies (which were greatly reduced in the latest Ag bill), grants, tax credits, etc. ag business is probably worse than wall street. If you doubt that, see how many congressman are invested in Ag vs Wall St. Hell it even goes as far as Farm Credit services. Tax free lenders created to help small farmers that Congress has now allowed to loan money to non-Ag businesses as well as house loans that have land greater than 15 acres even if that land won't be used for ag purposes. I could go on more about that, but it's not the topic of this conversation.

Corn ethanol has been debunked by several non-government organizations for various reasons as being one the highest cost grains to produce ethanol, having a bigger impact on vehicles, lowest mpg, and most side effects at the grocery store. The grocery store effect is wider than just corn price. Corn used to be used highly in the production of feed for animals like cows and pigs. Notice how your meat prices have gone up as well as dairy products?

That being said, I like corn and I like Ag. I ate cornbread for breakfast. My biggest business is with ag producers. I worked in the ag business during high school and college. Most days I'd rather be back at that ag job then at my desk. But it's a funny business.

re: your comment reps ag v. wall street sort of speaks to my thoughts that it's sort of a safe zone.  (Legitimate) farmers never have and never will be vilified and for good reason.  Working on a case involving some bad corn seeds.  Pretty interesting stuff. 

Onslow

There are probably more energy inputs in the ethanol production process than what it yields. Bmadd nailed it.


bmadd

The sad part is that switchgrass has been shown to yield more ethanol than basically anything else they've tried. It's by far the most affordable to grow as well.


sanjuanwormhatch

Quote from: bmadd on June 03, 2015, 21:11:13 PM

The sad part is that switchgrass has been shown to yield more ethanol than basically anything else they've tried. It's by far the most affordable to grow as well.

Why do you think it hasn't been used more?


Fin

Quote

There is a company down here making it from pine... hopefully not Loblolly.

Why not Loblolly?  The stuff grows like a weed.  Only 10-15 years to pulpwood size.  Twenty-five years and it's ready to harvest for timber.


Big J

I'm so happy BRFFF is figuring out the world's renewable fuel issues.



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