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Started by Mudwall Gatewood, April 15, 2015, 09:24:42 AM

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Big J

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on April 15, 2015, 09:24:42 AM

Interesting article on hatcheries and a BS piece proving we can't see past our noses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/opinion/the-cost-of-trout-fishing.html?emc=eta1

http://www.southerntrout.com/blog/eat-otter-tshirts/?utm_source=Southern+Trout+Newsletter&utm_campaign=ad696a70e9-_DonsContacts_03172014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_aecb6e9ce3-ad696a70e9-97930345
Native wild trout have mostly disappeared in the face of this immense fishing pressure.

I stopped reading after that comment.  Couldn't handle any more stupidity this morning.  Sounds like a person wrote an article they were not qualified to write. Being married to a writer, I'm amazed at the assignments writers get assigned to write that they are not qualified to write on.


sanjuanwormhatch

Will def check out the articles.

I did see on the facespace Kirk Deeter comment that TU will be taking a strong position on hatcheries soon.  Stay tuned.


Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

Quote from: Big J on April 15, 2015, 09:35:38 AM

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on April 15, 2015, 09:24:42 AM

Interesting article on hatcheries and a BS piece proving we can't see past our noses.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/11/opinion/the-cost-of-trout-fishing.html?emc=eta1

http://www.southerntrout.com/blog/eat-otter-tshirts/?utm_source=Southern+Trout+Newsletter&utm_campaign=ad696a70e9-_DonsContacts_03172014&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_aecb6e9ce3-ad696a70e9-97930345
Native wild trout have mostly disappeared in the face of this immense fishing pressure.

I stopped reading after that comment.  Couldn't handle any more stupidity this morning.  Sounds like a person wrote an article they were not qualified to write. Being married to a writer, I'm amazed at the assignments writers get assigned to write that they are not qualified to write on.

Fishing pressure may not be the prime culprit in the decline of US native wild trout, but I am sure in certain systems it played a role.  There seems to be a concerted effort nationwide to bring back natives to historical waters, so something was responsible for their demise.  And it wasn't otters or beavers. 

"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

Big J

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on April 15, 2015, 10:37:45 AM

Fishing pressure may not be the prime culprit in the decline of US native wild trout, but I am sure in certain systems it played a role.  There seems to be a concerted effort nationwide to bring back natives to historical waters, so something was responsible for their demise.  And it wasn't otters or beavers.

My main issue is the mostly disappeared part of his comment.  While yes, the historic range of wild trout have diminished some, there have been lots of work to restore native trout as well. While I agree that native trout will never be back to the historic range they use to, to say they have mostly disappeared is an idiotic statement.  I have went back and read the whole article and gathered that they are a casual trout fishermen that do nothing but chase the stocking trout around and have a conscience about wild trout, without the knowledge of wild trout.  Only point I agree strongly with is the stocking of trout over wild trout populations. I think stocked trout serve as a great resource and in the long run protect wild trout populations in most instances.  Cause Bubba is going to get his trout fix one way or another, I'd rather it be from stocked trout then wild trout. 

bullship

Quote from: troutfanatic on April 15, 2015, 10:03:57 AM

As for the eat more otter shirts, I'd add eat more beaver to that.

Too gamey

It's all shit, piss and bliss.

"This is the low rent district, and much like a trailer park, it doesn't attract the most upstanding citizens.
You can't piss in a mr coffee & get tasters choice."- Grannyknot

Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

April 15, 2015, 12:25:58 PM #6 Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 12:27:37 PM by Mudwall Gatewood
Quote from: troutfanatic on April 15, 2015, 12:02:44 PM

Take trout stamps for instance.
why not have a variety of them?

-catch and release FF only: 5.00
-catch, keep, eat, sodomize, whatever: 200.00
-guide, 500.00
-designated wild trout waters, C&R only: 25.00

Just ballpark figures. If I wanna fish in VA., I need to pay 94.00 if I want full trout access. I'm okay with that, but I get to compete with Mr. Zebco 202 and his minners after the stocker season ends. What does he pay? Not nearly as much as me and he has his freezer full. I keep less than four fish a year.

I could see a spectrum of stamps/fees, BUT it should be arranged like this:

- catch and release FF only: 200.00+
-catch, keep, eat, sodomize, whatever: present fee
-guide: fair fee, whatever that might be
-designated wild trout waters, C&R only: should not exist
-designated wild trout waters: 200.00+ for C&R FF only and present fee for others

And you're not competing with Mr. Zebco 202 and his minners.  He doesn't give a shit about you, me, or if we're using minnows, Pautzke Balls O' Fire, or a size 28 Griffith's Gnat. For there to be a competition your foe at least needs to be aware of you and the match.

"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

natureboy

"Southern Trout" an online rag out of Alabama, about as credible as us here in the Old Dominion publishing a magazine about Northern Alligators....

Big J, though the article is only an opinion piece, if you take a look at this you may realize the writer is closer to correct than you give him credit for: http://easternbrooktrout.org/assessment-data/ebtjv-maps/status-map/at_download/file  I think it's easy to think about all the waters that we know of and say that's pretty good, but if we look at the correct datum, it's easy to see how far off of historic numbers we are.

Fanatic, you're spending twice as much cash as you should be in VA, no need for a trout stamp for our best waters.

We're whittling away at the poor practice of stocking over wild fish here.  You'd think that in 2015 you wouldn't have to beg and fight a state agency, supposedly guided by science, to stop stocking over wild trout...


JMiller

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on April 15, 2015, 10:37:45 AM

Fishing pressure may not be the prime culprit in the decline of US native wild trout, but I am sure in certain systems it played a role.  There seems to be a concerted effort nationwide to bring back natives to historical waters, so something was responsible for their demise.  And it wasn't otters or beavers.

Well, logging mainly, and the related sedimentation and increased water temps from lack of canopy would about sum it up in the southeast.
Then people stocked back rainbows over what remained.

Anyway, I agree that the writer doesn't have a great understanding of the topic and that his key points were generally specious.

The complaint about trout chow being harvested from unsustainable fisheries? Id like to know what percentage of total harvest goes to this purpose. Im guessing a basically insignificant amount. And probably what is produced comes from the otherwise unmarketable scrap not fit for consumer use otherwise. Im sure the kentucky tuna would fill that role just fine if it needed to be used and were available.

Hatcheries contribute to reduced water quality? Again, probably technically true, but much less impactful than even a small municipal wastewater facility, of which there are thousands, and a hatchery's impact on an estuarine deadzone? Again, likely insignificant in the grand scheme of things.

I couldn't care less if I never catch another stocker trout again, but what about the mitigation hatcheries replace the warm water fisheries lost below dams? Those are federally mandated. Obviously those have some value. Writer completely ignores them.

Stocking over natives, well that's more complex.

"The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence."


― Charles Bukowski

Big J

April 15, 2015, 13:42:47 PM #9 Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 13:49:56 PM by Big J
Quote from: JMiller on April 15, 2015, 13:33:40 PM

Well, logging mainly, and the related sedimentation and increased water temps from lack of canopy would about sum it up in the southeast.
Then people stocked back rainbows over what remained.
Spot on.

And Natureboy, I have seen that map before and agree Brook Trout habitat has diminished greatly, but "Native wild trout have mostly disappeared in the face of this immense fishing pressure" is a garbage statement.  Mostly disappeared?  They are still in the majority a lot of their historic range.  Disappearing due to immense fishing pressure?  BS.  Fishing pressure is the least of the negative effects on the native streams.


Mudwall Gatewood 3.0

Quote from: Big J on April 15, 2015, 13:42:47 PM

Quote from: JMiller on April 15, 2015, 13:33:40 PM

Well, logging mainly, and the related sedimentation and increased water temps from lack of canopy would about sum it up in the southeast.
Then people stocked back rainbows over what remained.
Spot on.

And Natureboy, I have seen that map before and agree Brook Trout habitat has diminished greatly, but "Native wild trout have mostly disappeared in the face of this immense fishing pressure" is a garbage statement.  Mostly disappeared?  They are still in the majority a lot of their historic range.  Disappearing due to immense fishing pressure?  BS.  Fishing pressure is the least of the negative effects on the native streams.

Big J., you need to think bigger – open that mind young man.  I believe there are six species of trout native to North America, not just your precious brookie.  Have they been overfished in certain environs? 
"Enjoy every sandwich."  Warren Zevon

natureboy

April 15, 2015, 14:49:02 PM #11 Last Edit: April 15, 2015, 14:52:32 PM by natureboy
Quote from: Big J on April 15, 2015, 13:42:47 PM

Quote from: JMiller on April 15, 2015, 13:33:40 PM

Well, logging mainly, and the related sedimentation and increased water temps from lack of canopy would about sum it up in the southeast.
Then people stocked back rainbows over what remained.
Spot on.

And Natureboy, I have seen that map before and agree Brook Trout habitat has diminished greatly, but "Native wild trout have mostly disappeared in the face of this immense fishing pressure" is a garbage statement.  Mostly disappeared?  They are still in the majority a lot of their historic range.  Disappearing due to immense fishing pressure?  BS.  Fishing pressure is the least of the negative effects on the native streams.

Agreed, "due to fishing pressure" is generally BS, way more other things that take their toll.

JWJ

shouldn't waste your time reading "Southern Trout"


Big J

Quote from: Mudwall Gatewood on April 15, 2015, 14:48:22 PM

Quote from: Big J on April 15, 2015, 13:42:47 PM

Quote from: JMiller on April 15, 2015, 13:33:40 PM

Well, logging mainly, and the related sedimentation and increased water temps from lack of canopy would about sum it up in the southeast.
Then people stocked back rainbows over what remained.
Spot on.

And Natureboy, I have seen that map before and agree Brook Trout habitat has diminished greatly, but "Native wild trout have mostly disappeared in the face of this immense fishing pressure" is a garbage statement.  Mostly disappeared?  They are still in the majority a lot of their historic range.  Disappearing due to immense fishing pressure?  BS.  Fishing pressure is the least of the negative effects on the native streams.

Have they been overfished in certain environs?
No.

All the endangered trout species I can think of is due to stocking of other trout species and spawning with other trout strains.  Brook trout were mainly affected by logging, stocking of invasive species and etc, Golden Trout breed with rainbows that were stocked, greenback cutthroat spawned with rainbows as well making cutbows and about annihilating the species except for bear creek, Gila trout same story as golden trout and greenback cutthroat, Paiute cutthroat were about wiped out due to hybridized with Lahontan Cutthroat and Rainbows. 



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