Ferguson - lets hear your views

[Mudwall Gatewood 3.0]

horseshit youre as bad as race baiting al sharpton your a damn charleton

I think you meant charlatan.  Charleton is a guy's name, I think.  My name is Stephen.  I may be a charlatan but I ain't a charleton. 

[RiverbumCO]

Steel, may I suggest www.xnxx.com.

cures what ails ya.

[RiverbumCO]

Its pulled me thru some hard times.

all puns intended.

[Onslow]

White gravy on/in the jelly roll would alleviate a good bit of the angst.  The lube of love quiets the noise

[flatlander]

I've not kept up with this story.  Did the dead guy have a gun, knife, or some other menacing weapon?    Was there a gunfight, a fight for life?   

My human guilt is amazing.

Stephen, go read witness 10's full account of what happened (all the evidence has been released).  It's easy to find on the internet...I'm too lazy to go find you a link.

Before I read some of the evidence that was just released, I thought there was a distinct chance that EVERYONE involved would come out looking bad from this:  the kid; the cop; the police force; the town...all of them.  Having read the evidence, now I'm not so sure.  Excessive force...maybe. I'm inclined to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, now.  Either way, I don't think there was a snowball's chance that you could take this cased to court and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.  But I'm no attorney either.

What I don't understand:  You're walking down the middle of the street and a cop asks you to move over to the sidewalk--a reasonable request.  Instead of complying, you respond, "Fuck what you say!",  you repeatedly punch the cop and try to grab his gun.  WHO DOES THAT?  Who thinks that will end well?   What a waste/tragedy.   The kid is dead and the cop's life is ruined.

You want to talk excessive force...did anybody see that dumb cop in SC roll up on that black guy at a gas station , order him to raise his hands, then ask him to show him his driver's license?  When the poor guy turns back into the car to get his license, the cop dumps something like 8 rounds at him--thank God he only hit him once in the leg.  They ought to lock that bastard up and throw away the key.  He's a menace.

[flatlander]

I've not kept up with this story.  Did the dead guy have a gun, knife, or some other menacing weapon?    Was there a gunfight, a fight for life?   

My human guilt is amazing.

Stephen, go read witness 10's full account of what happened (all the evidence has been released).  It's easy to find on the internet...I'm too lazy to go find you a link.

Before I read some of the evidence that was just released, I thought there was a distinct chance that EVERYONE involved would come out looking bad from this:  the kid; the cop; the police force; the town...all of them.  Having read the evidence, now I'm not so sure.  Excessive force...maybe. I'm inclined to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, now.  Either way, I don't think there was a snowball's chance that you could take this cased to court and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.  But I'm no attorney either.

What I don't understand:  You're walking down the middle of the street and a cop asks you to move over to the sidewalk--a reasonable request.  Instead of complying, you respond, "Fuck what you say!",  you repeatedly punch the cop and try to grab his gun.  WHO DOES THAT?  Who thinks that will end well?   What a waste/tragedy.   The kid is dead and the cop's life is ruined.

You want to talk excessive force...did anybody see that dumb cop in SC roll up on that black guy at a gas station , order him to raise his hands, then ask him to show him his driver's license?  When the poor guy turns back into the car to get his license, the cop dumps something like 8 rounds at him--thank God he only hit him once in the leg.  They ought to lock that bastard up and throw away the key.  He's a menace.

pretty solid. How do you feel about the riots and who do you blame for them?

TF,

I think the black community has legitimate gripes regarding law enforcement in this country.  The incident in SC demonstrates that.  I'm not sure Ferguson does.  I don't like the riots.  I don't think it advances their cause, but I recognize there's a problem, and they feel very strongly about it.

The thing I can't come to grips with is how they choose these "incidents" to advance/bring attention to their cause.  So many of these cases seem to blow up in their face.  Tawana Brawley (sp?), Teyvon Martin (Sp?), The Duke Lacrosse Team, and now Mike Brown.  There have been legitimate incidents like Rodney King and the Amandou (Sp?) shooting in New York, but so many of these things seem to disintegrate on their merits.  Tawana Brawley lied, George Zimmerman turned out to be hispanic and the rage fizzled, the Duke Lacrosse incident was a total sham, and now it looks like Mike Brown may not have been the gentle giant everyone wants us to believe.  These things seem to take on a life of their own without any regard for the facts. 

[Grannyknot]

You have to forgive me for having certain feelings about police brutality & overreach of authority by law enforcement.
I had my orbital bone broken at age 18 by a police officer's Maglite.

Please, dont stop there.

Was at a party senior year of high school.  Cops came in.  Anyone who wasn't drinking was told to sit on the curb and wait on parents to come.
Was sitting on the curb chatting with a friend.  Officer came up and told me to "Stand Up", but I thought he said Shut Up.
So rather than stand up, I stopped talking.  Next thing I know I'm in a hospital.

Steelrain, I've never been in a gunfight & don't know what "fuck fuck games" are.

Just to clarify, I'm not down with riots, looting, or any organized violence as a result of the judgement.

[bmadd]

I've not kept up with this story.  Did the dead guy have a gun, knife, or some other menacing weapon?    Was there a gunfight, a fight for life?   

My human guilt is amazing.

Stephen, go read witness 10's full account of what happened (all the evidence has been released).  It's easy to find on the internet...I'm too lazy to go find you a link.

Before I read some of the evidence that was just released, I thought there was a distinct chance that EVERYONE involved would come out looking bad from this:  the kid; the cop; the police force; the town...all of them.  Having read the evidence, now I'm not so sure.  Excessive force...maybe. I'm inclined to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, now.  Either way, I don't think there was a snowball's chance that you could take this cased to court and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.  But I'm no attorney either.

What I don't understand:  You're walking down the middle of the street and a cop asks you to move over to the sidewalk--a reasonable request.  Instead of complying, you respond, "Fuck what you say!",  you repeatedly punch the cop and try to grab his gun.  WHO DOES THAT?  Who thinks that will end well?   What a waste/tragedy.   The kid is dead and the cop's life is ruined.

You want to talk excessive force...did anybody see that dumb cop in SC roll up on that black guy at a gas station , order him to raise his hands, then ask him to show him his driver's license?  When the poor guy turns back into the car to get his license, the cop dumps something like 8 rounds at him--thank God he only hit him once in the leg.  They ought to lock that bastard up and throw away the key.  He's a menace.

Are you talking about whitness 10's statement two days after the shooting where he said brown and smith were walking on the same sidewalk he was on and that he was 100 yards away when the shots took place? Or the one underoath where he said brown and smith were in the street and he was only 50-75 yards away?

[flatlander]

I think we largely agree on this.

I think there is a certain degree of unrest and protest that is justified. Not because of the verdict- I agree with the verdict. Although it was not truly a verdict; just a decision to indict or not to. Anger is justified because of the larger issue of how some police officers interact with minorities. The SC incident is prime and personally believe the incident this week where a kid was shot for having an airsoft pistol was questionable. I think we had an incident here in NC where some college athlete broke down by the side of the road and went looking for assistance and was shot by a cop. That too is questionable.

I don't blame the residents of Ferguson and Florrisant for being pissed.

I do blame the media for convicting Darren Wilson before he had his day in court. But let's face it, most major media outlets continue to align themselves with the narrative the government wants us to hear. That said, I do believe Obama and Holder are negligent in instigating this too. While I say there are still some issues on how police interact with minorities, does Obama really need to make a statement alluding to special law enforcement procedures for black communities? That says to me, well these black folks are a bit slow on the uptake and you need to give them a bit more leeway.

To me, that is just as racist as Jim Crow laws.

I also blame the professional rabble rousers aka community organizers coming in to deliberately stir stuff up. Labor unions like SEIU, campus organizer types from NY, MI, IL and CA. I think they hold more blame than any citizen of that community including the ones looting.

Yes, you and I are pretty much in lockstep.  I have come to the sad conclusion that the only solution to the racial divide in this country is going to ultimately have to come from within the black community itself.  I keep hearing that we need to have a "conversation" about race in this country, yet this conversation seems to consist of a one-way screaming match where  one side berates the other 100% of the time.  Any attempt at rational discourse is shouted down with cries of racism.  I think most white people are open/sympathetic, but mostly keep their heads down and their mouths shut for fear of being branded a racist.  Look at the prepearations prior to the announcement of the verdict.  The call to roll out the National Guard and the presence of police in riot gear was immediately dismissed as racially insensitive to the black community--"an expectation that black people riot."  Then the riots occur as everyone knew they would, and officials are excoriated for not having more troops and cops on the scene.  Ridiculous!

 

[flatlander]

I've not kept up with this story.  Did the dead guy have a gun, knife, or some other menacing weapon?    Was there a gunfight, a fight for life?   

My human guilt is amazing.

Stephen, go read witness 10's full account of what happened (all the evidence has been released).  It's easy to find on the internet...I'm too lazy to go find you a link.

Before I read some of the evidence that was just released, I thought there was a distinct chance that EVERYONE involved would come out looking bad from this:  the kid; the cop; the police force; the town...all of them.  Having read the evidence, now I'm not so sure.  Excessive force...maybe. I'm inclined to give the cop the benefit of the doubt, now.  Either way, I don't think there was a snowball's chance that you could take this cased to court and prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.  But I'm no attorney either.

What I don't understand:  You're walking down the middle of the street and a cop asks you to move over to the sidewalk--a reasonable request.  Instead of complying, you respond, "Fuck what you say!",  you repeatedly punch the cop and try to grab his gun.  WHO DOES THAT?  Who thinks that will end well?   What a waste/tragedy.   The kid is dead and the cop's life is ruined.

You want to talk excessive force...did anybody see that dumb cop in SC roll up on that black guy at a gas station , order him to raise his hands, then ask him to show him his driver's license?  When the poor guy turns back into the car to get his license, the cop dumps something like 8 rounds at him--thank God he only hit him once in the leg.  They ought to lock that bastard up and throw away the key.  He's a menace.

Are you talking about whitness 10's statement two days after the shooting where he said brown and smith were walking on the same sidewalk he was on and that he was 100 yards away when the shots took place? Or the one underoath where he said brown and smith were in the street and he was only 50-75 yards away?

You seem to have a preconceived opinion.  I can only take the guy at his word.  Don't know otherwise. 

https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/1370930-interview-witness-10.html

[bmadd]

That's his original statement. He changed that when he testified in front of the grand jury. My only preconcieved opinion is this was handled wrong. I think a jury should have been able to hear all evidence, whitnesses be cross examined, and then a decision made. I have nothing wrong with a police officer using deadly force to protect himself. Another preconcieved opinion I guess is I don't trust police or prosecutors, I respect the police though. I would have listened if an officer asked me to get out of the street.

[sanjuanwormhatch]

As for the actual events that happened months ago, its hard to say.  I've not seen the evidence.
My gut feeling is that the number of shots fired, along with their placement, seems like excessive force.
As to the looting & violence last night, I feel sorry for that African American community, as they all look like idiots for the way some of them reacted.

You have to forgive me for having certain feelings about police brutality & overreach of authority by law enforcement.
I had my orbital bone broken at age 18 by a police officer's Maglite.

That's pretty f'ed.

[sanjuanwormhatch]

I'm pretty sure this dude grew up in lily white connecticut or something.  Growing up in the dirty south, nothing, and I mean nothing, in wilson's story sounds unbelievable:  http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side.

Re the procedural issues at play, I think this is worth a read:  http://www.newyorker.com/news/news-desk/use-grand-jury.  Tend to agree with the guy. 

[benben reincarnated]

What I don't understand:  You're walking down the middle of the street and a cop asks you to move over to the sidewalk--a reasonable request.  Instead of complying, you respond, "Fuck what you say!",  you repeatedly punch the cop and try to grab his gun.  WHO DOES THAT?  Who thinks that will end well?   What a waste/tragedy.   The kid is dead and the cop's life is ruined.

This. 

I don't get people not listening to cops. This should serve as ANOTHER message, listen to what they say.  In all these situations where people choose to not comply it results in a best case scenario that you get your ass beat.  The worst case is what we saw happen which is a sad and unnecessary tragedy.  Best case scenario is you go down quick and get cuffed.  At the end of the day the cops job is make the threat subside not play Judge Judy or argue back with you.  If you have a problem mouth off to the judge or to the cop after you've been cuffed. 

[benben reincarnated]

So Granny, did your family sue the shit out of the City/PD, did the cop get charged with anything, was there any judgement against you?